I shot a 4 stage carbine match yesterday, and used the FA 4 times. "Load and make ready" = insert mag, drop bolt, pull back charging handle to see brass, release charging handle and hit FA twice. Needed? Nope, but that is what I do.
Forward Assist? What?
- Thread starter Archangel14
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keithbayne
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Well,according to armory master platoon 335 uscmrd paris island,it was
and no one was told not to clean or lube their rifle,that is a crock.i was there,i know what im talking about
and no one was told not to clean or lube their rifle,that is a crock.i was there,i know what im talking about
meanmrmustard
Member
How long would you be ogling that bolt? You take your thumb, a key, and empty shell casing, whatever blunt object you may have in your pocket. Those are things you can't break, or won't fail. Does it happen often that an FA breaks? Don't know.
Could it happen? Yes. Hit any AR15 forum, like I have, and you'll find instances. Whether they're true or not, who can say? No more BS than we are used to on Internet forums.
I don't go outta my way to avoid them. I just don't NEED one. I don't need to quietly chamber a round into a dirty chamber. I clean religiously, and I'm loaded ahead of time. If that extra cleaning or 2 seconds worth of prep saves a few bills over comparable models, then it's money well saved. I'm not a patient guy, so rather than wait on piecing together another build, I went Sport. Twice. Never looked back and regretted not having uneccesary contingencies, when a pocket knife, an empty brass, or my thumb suffices.
Welding Rod
Member
I always wonder why the "its gotta be MILSPEC or its just a hobby gun" fans don't come out of the wood work when this question comes up.
ny32182
Member
The forward assist is going to be FAR faster and more reliable than whatever junk happens to be available to fish out of your pocket at the time to try to press the carrier forward. In the event it doesn't chamber, either hitting the FA, or racking out the round in question seem like the best two options by far.
kcshooter
Member
Turns mild stoppages into huge jams.
No.
You don't need it. It's fluff.
This is just my opinion. I see no reason for them. Just yesterday at the range, there was a 15 minute long cease fire because someone had used a forward assist to jam an out-of-spec round solidly into the chamber. If a round won't chamber, there's a reason, and forcing it isn't the answer. Clear the round.
Using the forward assist to push it tighter into the chamber may make clearing it much more difficult and prolonged process. There's usually about 1 thread here a month titled "help me get the stuck round out of my AR's chamber."
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Billy Shears
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It seems to me that people are dreaming up some pretty unlikely scenarios in order to make the claim that the FA is indispensable. It starts with the claim that, even if forcing the bolt closed on a jammed round is a bad idea, the FA can be used to silently chamber a round after riding the charging handle forward to keep it from making noise. Okay, fair enough, I can see how it might be useful for that, and I can even see how that might potentially be useful for a soldier or law enforcement officer in some situations. But then someone else points out that this same task of pushing the bolt fully forward can be just as easily accomplished by using the thumb to push on the recessed side of the bolt carrier itself, and this works just as well, which is also true, and which makes the FA look unnecessary after all. Ah, but try that after you've just ripped off a couple of 30 round magazines and the bolt carrier's good and hot, someone else chimes in! Hope you've got a little bactine on hand to disinfect your burned thumb!
Come one folks. Really?
First off, how many of us realistically are ever going to need that ability to silently chamber a round in the first place? And of those here who might, how many are going to need to do it after blazing away a couple of full magazines at rapid fire? What need is there going to be, really, to silently chamber a round right after the clearly audible sound of your gunfire has alerted everyone within a three mile radius to your presence? Let's use a little common sense here.
Come one folks. Really?
First off, how many of us realistically are ever going to need that ability to silently chamber a round in the first place? And of those here who might, how many are going to need to do it after blazing away a couple of full magazines at rapid fire? What need is there going to be, really, to silently chamber a round right after the clearly audible sound of your gunfire has alerted everyone within a three mile radius to your presence? Let's use a little common sense here.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
And how is it gonna break? The forward assist isn't one of those things that functions with every cycle of the rifle. You have to manually activate it.
Necessary this side of a rice paddy or a red dust storm? Probably not. Maybe even never, but if that one time that it is necessary comes up...like the pistol that you carry on your belt...you'll be glad it's there...or sorry that it's not in any event.
It's not in the way, and unless you operate it, it doesn't do anything except sit there. It can't break unless it's used, and one or two functions isn't very likely to break it. It's also pretty durable in the event that the rifle is dropped, and if the rifle is dropped hard enough to damage it that badly, it'll probably get broken in other places, too.
It don't eat. It ain't in the way. It probably won't be needed, but if it ever is, it'll suddenly become very important.
meanmrmustard
Member
Ever been to the range and watched "tac savvy" mall ninjas beating the crap outta that thing, doing the absolute best they can to not silently load a round? I have, and seen ONE break, and only one. Ones more than enough. Substitute beating it or dropping it at the range for a serious situation. Then what are you going to do? Manually operating, as in by the hands of Man? Oh, it'll find a way to break!
It eats money on an otherwise cost effective platform, where as I've seen, rifles are coming in several hundred dollars more than a slick side. It gets in MY way, just like that goofy flap that can't keep 100% of dirt or dust out of the system anyway. So, why bother?
Man, AR threads get some stuff snowballing pretty quickly.
ny32182
Member
Now they break, AND cost several hundred dollars! 
meanmrmustard
Member
Yup. Well, that and a dust cover. Totally worth the moneyNow they break, AND cost several hundred dollars!
For a comparable rifle with 5R and melonite, yeah, equals more money for those two items.
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ny32182
Member
I think you are shopping in the wrong places.
meanmrmustard
Member
Well, I'm not shopping on the moon. I think some get to thinking that "wants" equal needs. You can have and use what you like, but I don't agree that it's needed.
springfield30-06
Member
Yes, I saw the round still had the bullet in the brass. That was 12 years ago, and now that I think about it I'm not sure if there was a click or if it was just that nothing happened at all (and yes the safety was off). I do know for sure it wasn't a squib or "pop and no kick" because I did see the unfired round.
HorseSoldier
Member
+1. I was taught to use it to verify a loaded chamber when doing a deliberate load. I was also taught to check the stagger on your magazine after loading, but I learned to press check first and never really took to the mag check idea.
I suppose it might be handy for quietly/silently-ish loading the weapon also, though I've never had occasion to find this useful -- the weapon gets loaded well before things have the potential to go sideways, and once you start burning through mags stealth is kind of out the window anyway.
dirtykid
Member
Having trained my self to slap the bottom of clip,drop the charging handle with rifle pointing down,and bumping the FA before I shouldered the weapon, I was rather dismayed at the extremly loud "CLICK" my Bushhamster made when I squeezed the trigger with crosshairs just behind the shoulder of a large coyote that had come in to my call,and was giving me a perfect broadside view at 70-yards away,, He heard that click,made my profile out against the abandoned farm machinery I had wedged myself against,and lit the afterburners into the brush..
I was in such a hurrry to get out into stand before dark,I had forgot to bump the FA
I cursed that rifle all the way back to the truck,, If I had only brought a bolt-gun.........
I was in such a hurrry to get out into stand before dark,I had forgot to bump the FA
I cursed that rifle all the way back to the truck,, If I had only brought a bolt-gun.........
Fortunately we have a choice to keep everybody happy.
kcshooter
Member
So what ended up being the problem with your rifle or ammo that you needed to use it?
meanmrmustard
Member
Indeed.
I find the forward assist interesting in that it was the added as an afterthought. Apparently, the darned M16 wouldn't always chamber a round properly as originally designed, so they had to modify it, again and again and again. So now it's about 50 years later and they have sorta finally gotten things right.
It seems to me that if a weapons system has as many issues as the M16 it would have been better to replace it with something that actually works. But what the heck, some fool at the pentagon wouldn't have been able to buy that caddie if they did.
By the way, the best modification ever made to the POS I used is called the 1911A1, at least it worked when I needed it to.
It seems to me that if a weapons system has as many issues as the M16 it would have been better to replace it with something that actually works. But what the heck, some fool at the pentagon wouldn't have been able to buy that caddie if they did.
By the way, the best modification ever made to the POS I used is called the 1911A1, at least it worked when I needed it to.
Billy Shears
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I had three different ARs issued to me when I was in the army, and they all worked flawlessly, from the brand new M4 I got just before I ETS'd, to the clapped out old M16-A2 I used in basic training. The only malfunctions I ever had with any of them were directly attributable to damaged magazines. The AR's I've shot on the police department, and the ones I own work perfectly as well. It's also interesting that units like the British SAS and Australian SAS, whose operators can pretty much get whatever they want, and whose own militaries don't issue the AR, choose the AR. They seem to think it "actually works" just fine.
The AR didn't have appreciably more bugs to be worked out than many if not most other designs, and less than some.
HorseSoldier
Member
And the AR's teething issues can largely be grouped into two categories --
1) Issue you run into rushing a new piece of kit into production and field use. Colt had quality control issues when the guns first came out. The M1 Garand and M14 also had similar issues, though both were lucky enough to not be rushed directly into a war zone, unlike the M16.
2) Generals and bureaucrats saying "shush, minions, the grown ups are talking" while they acted in deliberate ignorance. We all know the stories about lack of chrome lining, changing gun powder, and the rest -- pretty much all of which can be attributed to ignorant leadership trying to save a buck or just being plain stupid.
1) Issue you run into rushing a new piece of kit into production and field use. Colt had quality control issues when the guns first came out. The M1 Garand and M14 also had similar issues, though both were lucky enough to not be rushed directly into a war zone, unlike the M16.
2) Generals and bureaucrats saying "shush, minions, the grown ups are talking" while they acted in deliberate ignorance. We all know the stories about lack of chrome lining, changing gun powder, and the rest -- pretty much all of which can be attributed to ignorant leadership trying to save a buck or just being plain stupid.
Naybor
Member
Well, to have or not to have is really a non-issue and there are opinions on both sides.
I don't want to get into generals and bureaucrats, and I'm willing to bet that 95 % of vets will think a FA is essential. Remember, it's because of vets that we are not using German, Italian or other languages on the forum.
Missing a shot at a coyote is one thing, but hunkered down with the oddly bee-like sounds of bullets whipping by your ear, and your weapon's action has not fully went into battery, that FA will look like a godsend. In situations like that you usually don't count the number of rounds you've used. That may be the last round in the weapon ~ do you want to eject it or not. Dirty Harry said, "Do you feel lucky, punk?"
We both can be right! Just give the vets the respect they are due.
Sorry, I'm just passionate about this.
I don't want to get into generals and bureaucrats, and I'm willing to bet that 95 % of vets will think a FA is essential. Remember, it's because of vets that we are not using German, Italian or other languages on the forum.
Missing a shot at a coyote is one thing, but hunkered down with the oddly bee-like sounds of bullets whipping by your ear, and your weapon's action has not fully went into battery, that FA will look like a godsend. In situations like that you usually don't count the number of rounds you've used. That may be the last round in the weapon ~ do you want to eject it or not. Dirty Harry said, "Do you feel lucky, punk?"
We both can be right! Just give the vets the respect they are due.
Sorry, I'm just passionate about this.
kcshooter
Member
My dislike of a FA has nothing to do with this.
siglite
Member
The *one* time my issued A2 (way back in the when) failed on me was because I left the dust cover open. Grit, grime, etc.. got into my action. The FA was the only thing that kept my rifle running until I could break it down and scrub it.
Dust-cover. Critical in the field, dirt, mud, snow, ice and muck. Probably not on the square-range. FA? Proved useful to me exactly once. All of my ARs have one. Because I needed it once. Just once.
Dust-cover. Critical in the field, dirt, mud, snow, ice and muck. Probably not on the square-range. FA? Proved useful to me exactly once. All of my ARs have one. Because I needed it once. Just once.
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