thepenismightier
Member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2009
- Messages
- 45
Op-Ed on the Poplowski killings extrapolates a comparison of his rhetoric with that of pro-gun folk: http://www.salon.com/opinion/kamiya/2009/04/07/richard_poplowski/
Now that's not what I meant by "Pro-Gun"...you gotta go to the "comments" section. Here's the one I found interesting:
"Talk about misrepresentation!
I think the author thinks he can get away with a major straw-man argument because he assumes that all his readers are non-gun owners. Well, I'm not going to let it pass. I'm a Liberal Gun owner and I take part in a few online forums where I see stuff that runs the gammut from extreme to very moderate. I'm not alone.
The author says "these people are afraid Obama is going to take their AK-47 away!"... Well, they don't believe that, except for a very few far-right nutcases. What they believe is that Obama (as you pointed out) is going to re-instate the Assault Weapons ban. A ban. A ban on Assault Weapons. A ban on AK-47's, for example. So in the same article where you mock them for fearing bans on their AK-47's, you point out that Obama only wants to reasonably ban their AK-47's!
You've painted a characiture of the American gun owner that's frankly offensive to 34% of Democrats who are also gun owners. We don't believe the jackboots are going to kick in our doors. We KNOW he wants to take away our Conceal Carry Permits. We KNOW he wants to ban our AK-47's. We KNOW he wants to ban private sale of firearms (the so-called "gun show loophole" isn't about gunshows at all -- where background checks must be done like any other store -- it's about disallowing me from making a private gun sale without going through a dealer and paying the resultant fees for doing so).
In other words, your article accuses the NRA of lies, yet you told more than a handful of lies in your article. Comparing people who have a real reason to be concerned about Obama's gun control measures to nazi's (in a not so subtle way), is revolting -- and, I think, exactly the kind of speech you yourself were condemning among the radical right.
Your clever use of rhetoric might be lost to those not familiar with the issue, but those of us who are familiar notice that you say, "he will take away your AK-47," when the reality is, we are worried "he will take away your right to buy an AK-47"... that's not a subtle difference, but it's one we understand and you either do not, or you are being intentionally dishonest.
This is shameful rhetoric, worthy of Rush Limbaugh -- and the same style of dishonest rhetoric he uses to herd his sheep. Shame on you for being what you accuse others of being.-- BlackPR"
Full Disclosure, I often read Salon, among other online periodicals, and usually find some interesting stuff there, while keeping in mind that there's a liberal bias at work. While I can't say I agree with everything the commentor said (and while it's a touch heavy on invective), I think he's hit upon something in his critique of the Liberal mindset when it comes to gun control.
The assumptions made by the author of this article are exactly the type of mentality that Liberal gun owners (and I'm one of them) will have to combat among their own ranks. The condescending stance of "Don't worry, we just want to ban machine guns...we just want to ban concealed carry"...as if the pro-gun objection has always been that we simply misunderstand the stakes. That of course reasonable people would want those controls in place, and that only the crazies and the reactionaries would disagree.
These folks are never going to convince anyone, and won't be convinced themselves, so long as they're cloaked in this assumption of righteousness. Of course, one could say that finger points both ways...
Thoughts?
Now that's not what I meant by "Pro-Gun"...you gotta go to the "comments" section. Here's the one I found interesting:
"Talk about misrepresentation!
I think the author thinks he can get away with a major straw-man argument because he assumes that all his readers are non-gun owners. Well, I'm not going to let it pass. I'm a Liberal Gun owner and I take part in a few online forums where I see stuff that runs the gammut from extreme to very moderate. I'm not alone.
The author says "these people are afraid Obama is going to take their AK-47 away!"... Well, they don't believe that, except for a very few far-right nutcases. What they believe is that Obama (as you pointed out) is going to re-instate the Assault Weapons ban. A ban. A ban on Assault Weapons. A ban on AK-47's, for example. So in the same article where you mock them for fearing bans on their AK-47's, you point out that Obama only wants to reasonably ban their AK-47's!
You've painted a characiture of the American gun owner that's frankly offensive to 34% of Democrats who are also gun owners. We don't believe the jackboots are going to kick in our doors. We KNOW he wants to take away our Conceal Carry Permits. We KNOW he wants to ban our AK-47's. We KNOW he wants to ban private sale of firearms (the so-called "gun show loophole" isn't about gunshows at all -- where background checks must be done like any other store -- it's about disallowing me from making a private gun sale without going through a dealer and paying the resultant fees for doing so).
In other words, your article accuses the NRA of lies, yet you told more than a handful of lies in your article. Comparing people who have a real reason to be concerned about Obama's gun control measures to nazi's (in a not so subtle way), is revolting -- and, I think, exactly the kind of speech you yourself were condemning among the radical right.
Your clever use of rhetoric might be lost to those not familiar with the issue, but those of us who are familiar notice that you say, "he will take away your AK-47," when the reality is, we are worried "he will take away your right to buy an AK-47"... that's not a subtle difference, but it's one we understand and you either do not, or you are being intentionally dishonest.
This is shameful rhetoric, worthy of Rush Limbaugh -- and the same style of dishonest rhetoric he uses to herd his sheep. Shame on you for being what you accuse others of being.-- BlackPR"
Full Disclosure, I often read Salon, among other online periodicals, and usually find some interesting stuff there, while keeping in mind that there's a liberal bias at work. While I can't say I agree with everything the commentor said (and while it's a touch heavy on invective), I think he's hit upon something in his critique of the Liberal mindset when it comes to gun control.
The assumptions made by the author of this article are exactly the type of mentality that Liberal gun owners (and I'm one of them) will have to combat among their own ranks. The condescending stance of "Don't worry, we just want to ban machine guns...we just want to ban concealed carry"...as if the pro-gun objection has always been that we simply misunderstand the stakes. That of course reasonable people would want those controls in place, and that only the crazies and the reactionaries would disagree.
These folks are never going to convince anyone, and won't be convinced themselves, so long as they're cloaked in this assumption of righteousness. Of course, one could say that finger points both ways...
Thoughts?
