Found another gun - now what?

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theotherwaldo

theotherwaldo

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Went pottery-shard hunting down near Penitas and found more than I bargained for. A severely cut-down 1876 Winchester, a clasp-wallet with a crunchy rubber lining, and a mouse-eaten jacket, all stuffed in a dog-hole in the side of a bluff.

The Winchester's barrel and magazine are just over a foot long. The butt has been cut down to a rounded club-like shape. A carpet tack has been brazed on coarsely in place of a front sight. No original finish left - in fact, the surface has an odd brick-red orange-peel finish all over the exposed metal. All parts are still operable, although the bore is crusty and full of bugs. There was a live .45-75 round under the hammer and two more in the magazine.

Yes, it's obvious that this is a crime gun, although the crime was probably committed in the 19th century.

My question is, what is the legal status of this short-barrelled rifle, BATFE-wise? Should I donate it (anonymously) to the local historical society? Chuck it in a resaca? Any ideas?

No pics until this is resolved, if then!
 
Call your local police department. Tell them your story, and inform them that you will gladly give the weapon up, IF need be. They can run the numbers, and if it is clear (and BATFE legal) they will most likely let you keep it, or you can have it destroyed if you like. If it is not clear, they will take care of it. Either way, don't just toss it back out in to the sand. I would hate it if someone found it and got hurt. Makes us responsable ones look bad :mad:
 
Remove the barrel, put it back in the hole. Voila, you have a valuable Winchester action that can be rebuilt or sold.

I would say, however, that BATFE does make exceptions to licensing SBRs for historically significant pieces, a lot of pre-NFA trapper carbines and such have exemption letters from the BATFE. No idea how to go about getting such a letter, but they exist.
 
I definitely don't want to mess with the feds. I guess that the barrel is history.

Pity. The metal has weathered so oddly. Kinda like blackened pigskin. I didn't want to refinish it, but I'd never get a new barrel and mag tube to match.

The hole is gone, by the way. Bulldozed and buried in landfill. That's why I felt that it was OK to search for relics and shards there.
 
let the cops know

try and find a serial number then date it and if its an antique i believe its exempt but double check that with the feds

its a great piece of history so i wouldnt just toss it
 
I agree with others who suggest turning it in to the police and tell them exactly where you found it.

If the gun was used in a crime and can still lend itself as evidence in an unsolved case then turning it in may be the right thing to do. The gun may very well have been sitting there in that hole for decades or even a century but then again it could be just a decades old gun that was stashed there more recently. Remember things deteriorate fast when left to the elements, the stuff you found may look older than it really is.

BTW was there anything in the wallet that could help identify who the owner was? That might be helpful to the police if they decide to investigate. Was there any money in the wallet:D
 
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I'd also pull the barrel and just keep the action and parts to rebuild into a useable rifle or to sell.
 
isnt there a law about firearms manufactured before a certain date? i would guess that a rifle made in 1876 would qualify under that law!
 
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Agreed. if it was made prior to 1898, it is an antique by law, regardless of being a cartridge gun or muzzle-loader, and GCA'68 doesnt apply, and as far as I know, neither does the NFA. Antique guns are not regulated (unless you are a felon in posession of one, then there seems to be some debate about f they can own one).

Now, that doesnt mean than somebody didnt use that antique (and maybe stolen from someones collectiom) gun just last year to murder someone and then stashed it, so....
 
The NFA does in fact cover pre-1898 firearms, so what you found is a an unregistered SBR (there are some exceptions for C&R SBRs, but only for factory-made short guns, not homemade chop-jobs). I sure wouldn't take it to the cops in the condition you describe...if you are concerned about is possibly being stolen then at least remove and discard the barrel before showing it to any law enforcement.

You could remove the barrel, and then submit the paperwork to register it as an SBR, and then replace the barrel when it's approved. Or you could use the receiver for a restoration project. Either way, sweet find!
 
The NFA does in fact cover pre-1898 firearms, so what you found is a an unregistered SBR (there are some exceptions for C&R SBRs, but only for factory-made short guns, not homemade chop-jobs)
Click to expand...
That may be why I was thinking NFA might not apply to pre-1898 guns. The discussion I got the idea from may have involved one of the exceptions, and it wasnt explained properly, or not at all and I misinterpreted, or my memory is bad, as I cant remember the thread I'm thinking of (this is why I include words like "as far as I know", because the crazy maze of gun laws is mind numbing, and screwing up is SERIOUS business, so I dont like to claim very much as "fact" so hopefully nobody gets bad info).

Seems odd that antiques are almost non-firearms for the most part in the law, but that they made the NFA apply.But, when has the NFA made any sense anyways?

I guess they are worried about ganbangers with chopped Mauser 71/84's doing drive bys........:D
 
For god's sakes man keep digging the golds in there!!! I don't think I would alter it, leave it as is, call the BATF and fish for a solution to get it exempt. Find a really nice glass case and start telling your friends that your great great grandfather was running with outlaws in 1880! Do us all a favor and don't post something like this without pics. Tell us more too, what kind of jacket? wallet? and get a metal detector over there next weekend.
 
hang on if there was some way to prove that the rifle was shortened before the nfa laws wouldnt it be protected because the law wasnt made when the rifle was shortened? (the writ of habeus corpus maybe not sure aced us history but its been a while)
 
I'd start by not posting it on the internet. Then it would be cleaned up and put in the gun safe, no reason for anyone to know anything about it. Either that or leave it where I found it.

But you may be a little more "saintly" than I. Seriously, calling the BATF and saying "I have an illegal gun" is not a good idea. Even if you are well intentiond we all know how asinine they can be. If you have to know, call a lawyer, someone who isn't LE related. If you are on good terms with the local PD give them a call, but other than that I'd keep my mouth shut.
 
any cartridge gun under the 16" minimum is an illegal SBR if not registered BEFORE it was altered... now what ya could do is file for an SBR tax stamp for the Winchester YOU have not yet altered.... same way when we build an AK like a krink in original configuration we gotta file for the SBR tax stamp before the barrel is actually installed, once the tax stamp comes through then ya install the barrel and your legal nobody ever actually comes out to inspect em etc.... just pull the barrel and leave it with a friend, after ya get your SBR stamp ya will have to engrave your info on the receiver but once ya have done that the barrel can be reinstalled legally that route will cost ya $200

alota folks end up in warm water when they discover grand pas old SXS sawed off coach gun.... it has to be destroyed if kept as found its an illegal destructive device no exceptions for age or antiquity status if it has a bored through chamber that will accept cartridges now if its a muzzle loading BP shotgun or a stocked C&B revolver then its exempt but the Winchester your posting bout on the internet is deffinetly an illegal SBR at this point that is good for 10 years in club fed doesn't matter how it came into your possession or how old it is, it uses cartridges and it is in your possession...... ya can legally turn it over to the cops and play dumb ie; ya had no idea that a barrel under 16" was illegal until ya read bout it etc... they will take it and destroy it.. same for the BATF they don't care bout antiquity or not its just an illegal SBR and gets destroyed

if ya remove and dispose of the barrel (if the barrel is in your possesion along with the receiver a case for intent can be made against ya) then its just a receiver in need of a barrel
 
Since you posted this on the internet, we now have evidence that you in fact are in possession of an unregistered SBR. Turn it in to the police. Murder theories aside, it could also be someone's registered SBR that they lost or had stolen.
 
there is no evidence unless an agent has the illegal SBR in hand, anything posted on the net is strictly talk without the actual evidence to back it up as an actual crime, if an agent shows up and all ya have is a barreless Winchester reciever then there is no crime ya can file for SBR stamp then reinstall the barrel as there is no EVIDENCE of a crime without the actual gun in your possesion at the time an agent or officer discovers it, the internet post could be used as probable cause for a search warrant but that warrant is meaningless unless an actual SBR is found......... would think ya'd know that PY
 
A lot of smuggling has gone on in that part of Texas in the past. It may well be that it was stashed there by someone smuggling alchol during the prohibition. They may have been caught just after stashing it or maybe they hid it there so that they wouldn't be caught with a firearm. How far from the river was it?
 
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