Foxnews Alert: Gunman on VA Tech campus

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Did it sound to anyone else like there wasn't actually any lockdown policy?

No doubt. I got the same thing out of it. Hincker said, "Uhhh....it's not part of my communication plan."

The President then went on to talk about how difficult it was to figure out where to lock down all the transient students. Basically, they decided since the shooting took place at a dorm, then cancelling class was unnecessary.

That had 45 minutes to make this decision. The 911 call was at 7:15 a.m. and class starts at 8:00 a.m.

Look. No one is perfect. But it would seem as though if two people (at least) were shot in a campus dormitory, and there was no suspect in custody...Why wouldn't the call be made instantly to suspend classes. Instead, two hours later while these kids were minding their own business in class....
 
Washpost: toll up to 33

Also mention two 9mm pistols:

33 Dead in Virginia Tech Shootings, At Least 24 Injured

By Robert E. Pierre, Sari Horwitz and Jackie Spinner
Washington Post Staff Writers
Monday, April 16, 2007; 4:54 PM

Thirty-three people were killed and at least 30 injured during a shooting rampage this morning at Virginia Polytechnic and State University, making it the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history.

The unidentified shooter was among the dead. Law enforcement authorities, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the shooter used two 9mm pistols. They also said that the shooter was not carrying identification and his head wounds were so severe that authorities could not immediately identify him.

The shootings, which included both students and staff members, took place at West Ambler Johnston, a dormitory, and Norris Hall, which houses the College of Engineering.

Charles Steger, president of the university, said at a news conference late today that 31 people, including the gunman were killed at Norris Hall and two others died at the dorm. He said there was no connection between the two shootings, however, law enforcement sources told The Washington Post that a single shooter was responsible for both incidents. He said a list of the dead was not likely to be released until tomorrow.

Authorities said the first shooting was reported shortly after 7 a.m. at the dorm and the second about two hours later at Norris Hall.

"Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions," Virginia Tech president Charles Steger said at an earlier news conference. "The university is shocked and indeed horrified that this would befall us."

President Bush, in an afternoon news conference, said the shooting affected the entire country.

"Schools should be a place of safety and sanctity of learning," he said. "Today our nation grieves for those who have lost loved ones."

University officials, who have been inundated with calls from worried parents, urged students on the school website to contact their parents as soon as possible.

The shooting at Virginia Tech comes just four days before the anniversary of the Columbine High School slaying, in which 12 students and a teacher were gunned down by two students who spent months plotting the attack. The shooters killed themselves.

The worst mass shooting in U.S. history occurred Oct. 16, 1991, at Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas. George Hennard rammed his truck into the cafeteria and opened fire on the lunchtime crowd, killing 22 people before turning his gun on himself and taking his own life.

Area hospitals treating the wounded have reported at least 10 people are in critical condition and several are in surgery.

Earlier in the day, university officials confirmed a lower number of fatalities.

Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum, speaking at a news conference today, said he did not know whether the shooter was a student. Some of those killed were students in a classroom at Norris Hall, he said.

On the first day of the school year last August, Virginia Tech was shut down because of concerns that a gunman was on campus. The man, an escaped inmate accused of killing a sheriff's deputy and a security guard, was later captured near the school grounds.

The campus, about four hours southwest of Washington, was shut down for the day. Families trying to find students are advised to meet them at the Inn at Virginia Tech.

Counseling has been set up in the Merriman Center for employees and students. A convocation has been scheduled for noon tomorrow so the campus could begin healing.

Today's shootings occurred on opposite sides of the 2,600-acre campus, leaving students and workers under siege. The university, founded in 1872, has more than 25,000 fulltime students.

CNN showed a video taken by a student using a camera phone in which dozens of shots could be heard. It was unclear whether the gunman or police fired the shots.

At least four area hospitals are treating the wounded.

At the White House, Dana Perino's, deputy press secretary, said: "The president was made aware of the Virginia Tech shootings. He was horrified. And his immediate reaction was one of deep concern for the families of the victims, the victims themselves, the students, the professors and all the people of Virginia who have dealt with this shocking incident. And his thoughts and prayers are with them."

Carol Chappell, spokeswoman for Lewis-Gale Medical Center in Salem and Montgomery Regional in Blacksburg, said five of the injured were being treated at Lewis-Gale, which is a 521-bed facility. She said some of the injured at Lewis-Gale were referred from Montgomery Medical. Of the five patients admitted, four were students and one was a faculty member, she said. Two of the most critical were in surgery at 3 p.m.

She said 18 students are being treated at Montgomery Regional. Four of the most critical were in surgery in the middle of the afternoon. All were being treated for gunshot wounds and other unspecified injuries.

"It's so overwhelming," she said.

Eric Earnhart, spokesman for the Carilion New River Hospital near Radford and the Carilion Roanoke Memorial Hospital said four people were being treated at New River, which is about 20 minutes from Blacksburg. Three are in stable condition and one is in critical condition, he said.

Roanoke Memorial, 45 minutes from Blacksburg and part of Carilion's 10-hospital system in western Virginia, is treating 3 of the injured, all in critical condition, Earnhart said. All seven of the injured at the two hospitals were inflicted with gunshot wounds.

Earnhart confirmed that the four hospitals treating patients involved in the shooting were Memorial Regional, New River, Roanoke Memorial, a Level 1 Trauma Center, and Lewis-Gale.

Students and staff were notified by e-mail and automated voicemails that a gunman was on the loose and that everyone should stay in their buildings and "away from windows."

All across campus, people were trying to figure out what was happening, with cell phones sometimes working and sometimes not, the university Web site sometimes working and sometimes not, and the sound of sirens everywhere. Many watched from inside dorm rooms or offices, trading rumors and bad news. The co-ed West Ambler Johnston dorm is one of the largest residence halls on campus, housing 895 residents.

Wayne Neu, a professor of ocean engineering, was in his office across from Norris Hall when he heard shots, including what sounded like a police shotgun. "I saw one faculty member who was shot in the arm apparently being led away," he said. "I've been here 25 years I've never seen something like this happen."

Matteo del Ninno, a junior from Alexandria, had overslept and was rushing to his 10:10 a.m. class in Norris 200, when his girlfriend text-messaged him to see if he was OK. He hadn't heard anything about shootings but noticed the ambulances around; after her warning he went back to his house next to campus and checked all his messages. He's worried about his friends, engineering students who always meet before class in the hall.

Staff and students contacted by telephone said the morning's events were unnerving.

One woman who answered the phone in the school's Entomology Department said that about 9:45, they were notified that everyone was to remain in their offices and not venture out but were not given any other details. "There's cop cars everywhere," said the woman.

Another worker at the university, who also did not wish to be identified, said that there has been a dearth of information, except what could be gleaned from news reports.

"We're all just staying put," said the second woman.

Staff writer Bill Brubaker, Susan Kinzie and Howard Schneider contributed to this report.
 
Ya I imagine there will be a lot of explaining to do .. That place should have been swarming with cops .. I don't know about Virginia Tech but how well trained are campus police for these situation??
 
I went to school in Washington D.C. There was a shooting a block from campus and the campus was alerted within 20 minutes to stay inside. and then a few minutes later when they had the guy in custody. But I guess the quick response time was due to the violent area of D.C.
 
We were only alerted by email. We were "locked down" in the sense that we were told to stay in or dorm rooms. If people were already in class they stayed there. The problem is that they didn't do anything after the guy shot his girlfriend in the dorm. They let everyone go to class, and didn't lock down until he had already shot a bunch of people in Norris and then killed himself.
 
I'm about to start selling everything I don't absolutely need... and stock up on Mags and ammo... already doing some E-bay research to see what I can yield

:uhoh: :barf:
 
The press, acadame, and the law enforcement establishment preach: Do not fight back! On the street, in your home, on the air plane, on the high seas, anywhere, anytime. Do not fight back! You may be hurt.

Of course you may be hurt. You may be killed. As my daughter put it just last week - "big deal, you expect to live forever?"

The only honorable response to violence is counter-violence. To surrender to extortion is a greater sin than extortion in that it breeds and feeds the very act it seeks to avoid.

-Col. Jeff Cooper

The quote hit it on the head-these folks weren't just disarmed physically, they were disarmed mentally. A guy with a pistol in each hand tells a classroom full of students to line up against the wall and they all simply comply, even after he starts going down the line and shooting people? Nobody tries to get the guy?

He shot something like 60 people. Even with 2 pistols (Glock 17 holds 17 rounds, thus the name, IIRC) he's got to reload at least once with each pistol, and that's assuming every shot he fired was a hit.

Yes, if you go after him, he's probably going to hit the first guy, maybe even the first 3. But you're going to take him down.

Remember the outcry when that school tried to teach their students to fight back? Thrown books, etc (and college books are HEAVY, and this apparently was an engineering building, meaning really thick books) make it damn tough to aim effectively, and when you follow that up with a gang tackle, you've neutralized the threat.

VT needs to change their mascot to a damn sheep. An ewe, specifically.
 
Just imagine if universities taught How to be a Citizen, a Man, and a Defender of One's Life 101.

Just imagine this happy place.
 
The problem is that all they did was the email. They did nothing for the people at the school who were in danger. No public announcements... nothing... just the email.

You're on target, but that's not ALL they did. They also disarmed all CHP-carrying students who could have stopped this with their idiotic security policies. I wish the guy they discliplined last year for carrying concealed would have been around for this event.

Two CHP holders prevented a shooting from continuing at Appalchian Law School in Grundy, VA a few years back. I wonder how many students would have died on that campus if two guys with big guns and big balls hadn't intervened.

My guess is that the VT administration will now prohibit chains on campus.
 
We have 38 full-time sworn police officers who are complemented by security guards, campus watch officers and safe ride officers. VT police officers have jurisdiction and legal authority on all university-owned property. Since students live both on and off campus, we work very closely and share jurisdiction with the Blacksburg Police Department, the Montgomery County Sheriff's Department and other law enforcement agencies.
http://www.police.vt.edu/
 
The quote hit it on the head-these folks weren't just disarmed physically, they were disarmed mentally. A guy with a pistol in each hand tells a classroom full of students to line up against the wall and they all simply comply, even after he starts going down the line and shooting people? Nobody tries to get the guy?

He shot something like 60 people. Even with 2 pistols (Glock 17 holds 17 rounds, thus the name, IIRC) he's got to reload at least once with each pistol, and that's assuming every shot he fired was a hit.

Yes, if you go after him, he's probably going to hit the first guy, maybe even the first 3. But you're going to take him down.

Remember the outcry when that school tried to teach their students to fight back? Thrown books, etc (and college books are HEAVY, and this apparently was an engineering building, meaning really thick books) make it damn tough to aim effectively, and when you follow that up with a gang tackle, you've neutralized the threat.

Based on MSNBC's interview with a survivor, it sounds more like he just walked into a classroom and opened fire. If the doors were to the rear of the class (like many are), the students would have had no warning. And there's not a whole lot of options if you're unarmed, sitting at a desk, facing away, and two or three rows over. And then he probably moved on to other classrooms.

There will be plenty of blame to go around by the time this is over, but from the sounds of it the students in the (first?) classroom had absolutely no warning or means of response.
 
Also: one problem with the CHL thing is that at least 50% of the population of most universities is under 21, and thus can't have a pistol or CHL.

Do like the Israelis-arm and train the teachers. Note the lack of school shooting in Israel, even though their neighbors are homicidal lunatics.
 
I love (heavy sarcasm) all these photographs of police officers with M-16's hiding behind cover... I thought they were trained to go in an actually do something? :barf:

:fire:
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

Bath School disaster
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bath School Disaster

Location Bath Township, Michigan

Date May 18, 1927

Fatalities 45

The Bath School disaster was a series of bombings in Bath Township, Michigan, USA, on May 18, 1927, which killed 45 people and injured 58. Most of the victims were children in second to sixth grades attending the Bath Consolidated School. The bombings constituted the deadliest act of mass murder in a school in U.S. history.

The perpetrator was school board member Andrew Kehoe, who was upset by a property tax that had been levied to fund the construction of the school building. He blamed the additional tax for financial hardships which led to foreclosure proceedings against his farm. These events apparently provoked Kehoe to plan his attack.

So today's tragedy was NOT the worst massacre in U.S. history.

And NO GUNS were used in the Bath massacre.

Good to know.
 
I think VA tech. and the Blacksburg PD are going to get their brains sued out over this, and rightfully so. It's inexcusable that the campus wasn't locked down and overrun with LEOs, until this little creep was found.

How do you lock down a campus that has 28,000 students, is 2,600 acres in size, and has 300 buildings on the main campus? There are probably more buildings on the VT campus than there are LEO's in all of Montgomery County.

For those of you complaining about e-mails -- on a campus the size of VT and with the level of computer connectivity on that campus, e-mail is by far the fastest way to notify students of a campus emergency.
 
How could people just stand there and wait to be killed?

We don't know if they fought back or not. None of that has been confirmed, to my knowledge

I was thinking the same thing, and it kind of reminded me about film clips I had seen in which prisoners in the concentration camps lined up by the ditches they had dug.

It will be interesting to learn the facts.
 
I thought they were trained to go in an actually do something?

They did. After the shooter killed himself, they burst into the various closed rooms and marched everyone out with their hands up, threatening to kill anyone who didn't comply. CNN's been covering it.
 
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