FP-10 and three round burst. Huh?

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esheato

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Long story short...

A buddy went to the Shot Show. Picked up a sample of FP-10. He talked to the rep for a few minutes and the rep recommended putting a drop of it on the sear and it would reduce the "felt" trigger pull. Sited a few sources where it actually worked.

Me being the genius that I am...:p thought, hey, this is a great idea. I put a drop on the sear of my 1911 the other day. So I'm at the range tonight with a few friends doing some target shooting and kicking some butt on the dueling tree, when I insert a full magazine and drop the slide.

My gun goes into 3-round burst mode and I fire 2 rounds into the concrete range floor several feet in front of me and one into I don't know where. :eek: Now, I know for a fact that my finger wasn't on the trigger because I'm a lefty and I use my trigger finger to trip the slide release. The really scary part was because I was using my trigger finger to release the slide, I didn't quite have a full grip. It was not a fun experience. Scared the daylights out of me.

Anyway, I went and relaxed for a few minutes getting my composure, then went out and tried to shoot again. This time I had a correct firing grip and was using a right hand hold and using my left hand to trip the slide release. I was able to repeat it twice more, although these mags were only loaded with one round.

I was curious what was going on so I did a complete detail strip and all the parts looked good. The hammer hooks and sear engagement was fine. None of the metal was rolled over or broken/chipped. The only thing I could think of was the FP-10.

I wiped all the parts down and put it back together. Went back to the range and loaded about 20 rounds one at a time from slide lock and never repeated the problem. So I ended up shooting about another 150 rounds and didn't have any problems.

Now, this gun has a trigger that's around 3 lbs, maybe a little lighter. I've never had problems with it before. It's my competition gun and it's not a major brand name...totally custom.

How's that for odd? ;)

Other than that, a 10/22 got retrofitted with some Volquartsen parts. Put a bull fluted stainless barrel and trigger group on it. If that stock I have on order would come in I'd be in heaven. ;)

esheato....
 
I think that if lubrication makes a difference between the gun going full auto or not, then evaluation by a smith is in order. The sear engagement sounds suspect to me.
 
Um, it isn't the lube. Your gun is broken. Or maybe was improperly assembled the first time 'round.
 
Burst

Gotta go along with Tim and Sean. If the lube caused it, it'll do it without
the lube eventually. Might be a simple matter of a new sear and mainspring. Maybe squaring up the hooks a little...I'm curious as to why the half-cock didn't catch the hammer, too. It should have with your finger
off the trigger.

On the other hand..it got the old adrenalin flowin' eh, what?:D
 
Get it to a gunsmith before the humorless BATFE comes callin' about that illegal Class 3 you have - don't wait, as I am not kidding! 30 years and $30,000 is a long time/lots of money.....
 
Back when I was an expert I built a couple 1911's. I thought I could do a trigger job without the jigs, you just have to be careful right? The jigs are for sloppy people or speed right? Nope. I had a full auto 1911 after a couple hundred rounds. Sometimes it would double tap, sometimes triple, sometimes it would burn the entire mag in one big nasty burst! I "tuned" that sucker up and tried again, worse this time. I ruined the hammer and the sear before it sunk in. The moral of the story is you need the right tools to do the job, and there are no shortcuts.

Your gun is broken, like the others have pointed out. It may not need new parts yet, but it will if you don't have the right tools to fix it. If someone bent the sear spring out to lighten the trigger pull it will also help to cause things like this. Know full well it is a shortcut and a half-arsed way to get the lighter pull. It also helps to explain the halfcock notch not catching the hammer with your finger off the trigger. Check the sear carefully for damage too, if it is flapping around in there without sufficient spring pressure it will damage the nose in short order.

At any rate your gun is DANGEROUS. It is NOT safe to continue shooting. If it went FA with just the slide dropping it might just fire at any time with a slight bump or motion. Put a zip tie through it and shelf it until it gets fixed.
 
Yeah... I'd have crapped my pants too but it's not the lube.

I've used FP-10 on every single one of my guns and I've never experienced a three round burst on any of them.

Get that bad boy checked out! :what:
 
I've been using FP-10 on trigger group components of 3 M1As and I can't for the life of me get them to go FA. I feel cheated! Seriously as the more knowledgeable responders have said, somethings wrong. Yikes, a full auto 1911. Very scary, especially if you're not expecting it.:what:
 
"Runaways" in a 1911 or any gun - especially when it's indicated that you didn't touch the trigger - means your gun is extremely hosed and UNSAFE. Unloaded it and put a gunlock through it, and tag it as unsafe. Lock it in your gunsafe until you can get it to a professional and well regarded gunsmith.
 
Definitely a mechanical problem. The reason the FP-10 'made' it go full auto was that the only thing keeping it from doing this before was FRICTION. Removing the FP-10 must have reintroduced the friction that kept the gun from going off. I'd suggest a good gunsmith. Four pounds is a minimum and that's a "good" trigger job. If lube changes the pull, then your engagement angles are wrong and you're hosed as another put it. Lube should only smooth the pull, the weight should not change.

Gunsmith, new sear and hammer, possibly new spring. My .02 worth.
 
Lots of similar remarks. It's on the way to the gunsmith. Monday morning it will be at the shop.

The venerable IPSC god Bruce Gray built it, but I'm not sure when. It went through a couple hands before I got it from a good friend. The trigger pull is sweet and I hate to have it changed but it's pretty much mandatory at this point.

It's a mutt of a pistol. Actually, I call it "Mutt." Essex frame, Colt slide, Wilson barrel, Chip McCormick internals. Not sure what the mainspring is rated at. I've posted pics of it before.

I'll see what the smith has to say about it on Monday.

esheato...
 
I'm betting there is a disconnector problem to go along with maybe a sear that needs re-cutting.. If this was simply a sear face/ hammer hook angle problem, I would expect the safety hook (half cock notch) on the hammer to catch the sear and prevent multiple fire. The sear nose usually has to be either broken off or really screwed up to fail to trap on the safety hook. Check the half cock notch on the hammer and make sure it's OK.
 
Half cock notch is fine also. I talked to my smith earlier today and he said the lube wasn't a good idea with the trigger as light as it is. I'm going to drop off the gun in a few hours. I'll let ya know what I find out.

esheato..
 
I talked to my smith earlier today and he said the lube wasn't a good idea with the trigger as light as it is.
Click to expand...

You need a new gunsmith. A gunsmith who tells you oil is bad idea in a gun needs to find a new line of work.

It's possible you can get an "inertia discharge" in a 1911 if the sear/hammer angle are too flat and the sear spring is set ridiculously light. When the slide come forward and hits the frame, the gun rocks forward. The mass of the trigger tries to make it remain at rest and that applies a tiny rearward force on the disconnector/sear (ie, a mini trigger pull). Unless you have a 1.5# trigger, it should not be a problem. BTW: I have a 2.3# trigger in one of my 1911's and have never had this problem (and I use FP-10 everywhere).
 
Three Shots and a Duck

First off, your gunsmith is dead wrong. Secondly, Bountyhunter nailed it
squarely on the head. The trigger is doing an inertial sear trip. You can
probably prevent it by holding the trigger to the rear when you drop the slide...Not really the best approach, but it'll work. Old bullseye shooters did it for years. IDPA/IPSC range officers will invite your to leave when
they see you do it. Test it with one round in a magazine.

After thinkin' about this one for a while, I'm gonna bet that the breakaway
angle on the back of the sear has been overcut, leaving a too-narrow
primary angle...AND, the half-cock has probably been modified to prevent
tipping the sear nose as it goes past. Maybe the result of setting the
overtravel screw too deep, and trying to make up for the almost-too-short
trigger travel by filing a heavy bevel on the top of the half-cock notch.
There's also a good chance that the sear itself it too short. Hard to say
for sure...Just touchin' all bases.


I'm also gonna bet that the hammer hooks are less than .018 inch long and
probably stoned or worn to a slightly negative angle. The mainspring is
alwo likely in the 17-19 pound range in order to try and reduce every possible ounce from the pull weight. There's also the distinct possibility
that the left leg of the sear spring has been overtweaked for the same reason.

In other words...a completely botched trigger job. Touchy and dangerous at best.

Sorry...You plunked down your long green and you deserve better.

Tuner
 
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