France Pre-Vetoes Iraq Reconstruction
- Thread starter Nathaniel Firethorn
- Start date
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Are they going to march into iraq to stop us?
I think we just pre-vetoed the idea that France will get any contracts to help with that reconstruction.
That leaves them only with the wine, cheese, and overpriced mineral water markets to compete in.
I think we just pre-vetoed the idea that France will get any contracts to help with that reconstruction.
That leaves them only with the wine, cheese, and overpriced mineral water markets to compete in.
Ledbetter
Member
Let's hope they continue stamping their little feet. Maybe this will be the catalyst that gets us out of the U.N.
Columnist Charles Krauthammer of the Wash Post group suggested just that in his column today.
Columnist Charles Krauthammer of the Wash Post group suggested just that in his column today.
hutch24
Member.
Does anyone actually listen to the french anymore? 
Hkmp5sd
Member
Once the US gets control of Iraq and has the chance to review the records of arms shipments from France to Iraq in the past decade, France will shut up and do exactly what they are told.
Glock Glockler
Member
The French president said at a European Union summit he would "not accept" a resolution that...
And what the hell do you plan on doing about it, Froggie?
This is all the more reason why we should leave the UN.
And what the hell do you plan on doing about it, Froggie?
This is all the more reason why we should leave the UN.
Airwolf
Member
HMMMM.....?
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,6167367%5E1702,00.html
France denies Saddam deal
From correspondents in Washington
March 22, 2003
FRENCH officials denied today that France might be helping to broker a deal which would see Iraqi President Saddam Hussein exiled in west African state of Mauritania.
French foreign ministry spokesman Francois Rivasseau told AFP that he "was not aware" of French efforts, reported on ABC television news, to secure Saddam's exile.
His denial followed an ABC report that Pierre Duval, a French foreign ministry official, had travelled repeatedly to Baghdad since December in an attempt to convince Saddam to accept exile in the Islamic republic and former French colony of Mauritania.
The report quoted US officials as saying details of the exile were being negotiated through lawyers in Jordan representing Saddam's son Qusai.
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,6167367%5E1702,00.html
France denies Saddam deal
From correspondents in Washington
March 22, 2003
FRENCH officials denied today that France might be helping to broker a deal which would see Iraqi President Saddam Hussein exiled in west African state of Mauritania.
French foreign ministry spokesman Francois Rivasseau told AFP that he "was not aware" of French efforts, reported on ABC television news, to secure Saddam's exile.
His denial followed an ABC report that Pierre Duval, a French foreign ministry official, had travelled repeatedly to Baghdad since December in an attempt to convince Saddam to accept exile in the Islamic republic and former French colony of Mauritania.
The report quoted US officials as saying details of the exile were being negotiated through lawyers in Jordan representing Saddam's son Qusai.
Airwolf
Member
More...
I think this is going to get REAL ugly if France doesn't back off.
http://www.iht.com/articles/90687.htm
Blair-Chirac quarrel rages on at EU summit
Elaine Sciolino/NYT The New York Times
Saturday, March 22, 2003
BRUSSELS The battle within Europe sparked by the Iraq crisis raged on as President Jacques Chirac of France vowed Friday to oppose a British idea for a Security Council resolution that would give the United States and Britain the right to govern Iraq.
And on the second and final day of a summit meeting that brought together the 15 leaders of the European Union, Britain continued its verbal attack against France, while Germany announced that it would join France and Belgium - the countries most opposed to the war - in a summit meeting on how to strengthen Europe's military capability.
No one could remember a European summit meeting more tense - and surreal. The war with Iraq has exploded the myth of European unity and it intruded at every turn.
As the European leaders proclaimed their commitment to open their energy markets, create jobs, institute a single air-traffic control zone and make Europe the most competitive economy in the world, dozens of television screens mounted throughout the room carried live news of the war.
The disconnect underscored an important point: Europe may be able to come together on issues affecting its members' economies, but it is more divided than ever on how to defend itself and project power around the world.
The sharpest fissure was between Britain and France. Rejecting an idea floated by Prime Minister Tony Blair earlier in the day for a resolution to give international authority to a new administration in Iraq, Chirac said at a news conference, "This idea of a resolution seems to me to be a way of authorizing military intervention after the fact, and so is not, from my point of view, fitting in the current situation."
He added, "France will not accept a resolution tending to legitimize the military intervention" and giving the Americans and the British "powers over the administration of Iraq."
Blair, in an earlier news conference here, said that there was general agreement between Europe and the United States that "it is important" to have a new Security Council resolution, not just to address the potential humanitarian crisis in Iraq but also to authorize what he called the "post-Saddam civil authority" in Iraq. The Bush administration has indicated that it plans to bypass the United Nations and administer Iraq itself.
Chirac's uncompromising stance is certain to deepen the sentiment in both the United States and Britain that the French president sabotaged the campaign in the United Nations for a resolution that would have endorsed the American-led war in Iraq. It was also puzzling. There is no resolution for either the governance or the reconstruction of Iraq on the table, and he could have easily dodged reporters' questions by saying that such planning was hypothetical while war raged.
Chirac said that the United Nations was the only body that could take responsibility for rebuilding Iraq, underscoring that he is willing to consider some sort of resolution, but not one that would seem to legitimize the war or give the United States and Britain exceptional powers. "Whatever the results of the military operation," Chirac said, Iraq "must be rebuilt, and for that there is just one forum - the United Nations."
The leaders wrapped up their summit meeting with a 36-page declaration that pledged to forge creative strategies to combat the global economic slowdown. Still, not all of the insults could be held back. Britain, which has committed 45,000 troops to the U.S.-led Iraqi campaign, continued to hurl accusations that France had sabotaged an effort to win international approval of the war at the United Nations.
Britain's foreign secretary, Jack Straw, refused to back off his verbal assault on France, which drew an angry protest from his French counterpart. "I stand by the words I have used," Straw told British reporters. "I don't regret the fact that we have argued."
Asked about a proposal by France, Germany and Belgium to hold their own defense summit meeting, Denis McShane, Britain's senior official on Europe, told French reporters in flawless French, "The idea of a European defense based on Belgium and without England - I wonder how serious this could be." Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder of Germany told reporters that the summit meeting would help accelerate the process of forging a common European security policy. But he suggested that all 15 European Union leaders and the 10 additional countries that are poised to join the organization would be invited, saying, "We should not in any way exclude anyone from European defense."
Blair refused to be drawn into the intra-European fight, but he did not try to hide the divisions either, telling reporters that there was "no point dwelling" on the differences between France and Britain.
He said that Chirac had sent him a personal note expressing condolences for the death of eight British soldiers killed Thursday night in a helicopter crash in Kuwait.
Without directly criticizing the plan by three member countries to meet on defense, he stressed the importance for Europe as a whole to reach agreement on a common foreign and defense policy and lamented the fact that the Iraq crisis had exposed the "fault line" in Europe's strategic relationship with the United States.
I think this is going to get REAL ugly if France doesn't back off.
http://www.iht.com/articles/90687.htm
Blair-Chirac quarrel rages on at EU summit
Elaine Sciolino/NYT The New York Times
Saturday, March 22, 2003
BRUSSELS The battle within Europe sparked by the Iraq crisis raged on as President Jacques Chirac of France vowed Friday to oppose a British idea for a Security Council resolution that would give the United States and Britain the right to govern Iraq.
And on the second and final day of a summit meeting that brought together the 15 leaders of the European Union, Britain continued its verbal attack against France, while Germany announced that it would join France and Belgium - the countries most opposed to the war - in a summit meeting on how to strengthen Europe's military capability.
No one could remember a European summit meeting more tense - and surreal. The war with Iraq has exploded the myth of European unity and it intruded at every turn.
As the European leaders proclaimed their commitment to open their energy markets, create jobs, institute a single air-traffic control zone and make Europe the most competitive economy in the world, dozens of television screens mounted throughout the room carried live news of the war.
The disconnect underscored an important point: Europe may be able to come together on issues affecting its members' economies, but it is more divided than ever on how to defend itself and project power around the world.
The sharpest fissure was between Britain and France. Rejecting an idea floated by Prime Minister Tony Blair earlier in the day for a resolution to give international authority to a new administration in Iraq, Chirac said at a news conference, "This idea of a resolution seems to me to be a way of authorizing military intervention after the fact, and so is not, from my point of view, fitting in the current situation."
He added, "France will not accept a resolution tending to legitimize the military intervention" and giving the Americans and the British "powers over the administration of Iraq."
Blair, in an earlier news conference here, said that there was general agreement between Europe and the United States that "it is important" to have a new Security Council resolution, not just to address the potential humanitarian crisis in Iraq but also to authorize what he called the "post-Saddam civil authority" in Iraq. The Bush administration has indicated that it plans to bypass the United Nations and administer Iraq itself.
Chirac's uncompromising stance is certain to deepen the sentiment in both the United States and Britain that the French president sabotaged the campaign in the United Nations for a resolution that would have endorsed the American-led war in Iraq. It was also puzzling. There is no resolution for either the governance or the reconstruction of Iraq on the table, and he could have easily dodged reporters' questions by saying that such planning was hypothetical while war raged.
Chirac said that the United Nations was the only body that could take responsibility for rebuilding Iraq, underscoring that he is willing to consider some sort of resolution, but not one that would seem to legitimize the war or give the United States and Britain exceptional powers. "Whatever the results of the military operation," Chirac said, Iraq "must be rebuilt, and for that there is just one forum - the United Nations."
The leaders wrapped up their summit meeting with a 36-page declaration that pledged to forge creative strategies to combat the global economic slowdown. Still, not all of the insults could be held back. Britain, which has committed 45,000 troops to the U.S.-led Iraqi campaign, continued to hurl accusations that France had sabotaged an effort to win international approval of the war at the United Nations.
Britain's foreign secretary, Jack Straw, refused to back off his verbal assault on France, which drew an angry protest from his French counterpart. "I stand by the words I have used," Straw told British reporters. "I don't regret the fact that we have argued."
Asked about a proposal by France, Germany and Belgium to hold their own defense summit meeting, Denis McShane, Britain's senior official on Europe, told French reporters in flawless French, "The idea of a European defense based on Belgium and without England - I wonder how serious this could be." Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder of Germany told reporters that the summit meeting would help accelerate the process of forging a common European security policy. But he suggested that all 15 European Union leaders and the 10 additional countries that are poised to join the organization would be invited, saying, "We should not in any way exclude anyone from European defense."
Blair refused to be drawn into the intra-European fight, but he did not try to hide the divisions either, telling reporters that there was "no point dwelling" on the differences between France and Britain.
He said that Chirac had sent him a personal note expressing condolences for the death of eight British soldiers killed Thursday night in a helicopter crash in Kuwait.
Without directly criticizing the plan by three member countries to meet on defense, he stressed the importance for Europe as a whole to reach agreement on a common foreign and defense policy and lamented the fact that the Iraq crisis had exposed the "fault line" in Europe's strategic relationship with the United States.
DeltaElite
Member
I believe we have already established how much we care what the frogs think, now haven't we.
Destructo6
Member
A curse on his mustache.
seeker_two
Member
And when all that French equipment at the WMD sites is shown, I'm sure we'll be eager to do oil business w/ the cheese-eating surrender monkeys...
Zundfolge
Member
Better yet, lets just leave the UN and let them keep the French
I'm thinking that once we remove Saddam we will replace him with leaders of our choosing (at least until free elections can be held). Chances are the new leaders will be enemies of Saddam ... and we know how Saddam treats his enemies.
I could actually picture the future leadership of Iraq say to France "You people blocked our liberators at every turn ... you helped keep us under Saddam's boot longer, allowing Saddam to murder, rape and torture our families and friends. Because of this NO OIL FOR YOU!"
Keep in mind that France gets a lot of their oil from Iraq (watch energy prices double in France and we can all laugh
)Mike Irwin
Member
There is no way in hell that this should ever be put to a resolution before the Security Council.
The United States and Britain should should all of the economic cost, and benefit, for reconstructing Iraq.
France, Germany, Russia, etc. should be COMPLETELY cut out of this process.
Why the hell should we have to request any sort of "international authority" to administer Iraq? It's insane.
Bush & Blair should essentially say "you don't like it? Tough. We're here, you're not."
The United States and Britain should should all of the economic cost, and benefit, for reconstructing Iraq.
France, Germany, Russia, etc. should be COMPLETELY cut out of this process.
Why the hell should we have to request any sort of "international authority" to administer Iraq? It's insane.
Bush & Blair should essentially say "you don't like it? Tough. We're here, you're not."
Sir Galahad
member
I heard it all revolves around France being peeved about not being asked to surrender before Iraq. It made them feel cheap. Could you imagine French troops in Iraq? With both them and Iraqis surrendering at the same time, it'd look like a big game of "Simon Sez" in camo.
As far as the Russians, well, it looks like they're never going to get paid for all those AKs and T-72s. If they'd have played ball, at least they'd have had the chance to repo the stuff. Then they could have at least sold it at a bargain price to some other despot in a funny uniform. Could have had a "Buy One, Get One Free" sale. But now we'll have the pink slips on all that hardware.
The Germans will just have to be happy with France watching their backs from now on. Greece is desperately trying to look relevant beyond providing feta cheese and retsina. But they never sold any of that to Iraq because Saddam doesn't (or didn't, whatever the case may be) like feta cheese and had a violent dislike of spanokopita. Germany, however, sold a bit more than just weisswurst and sauerkraut to Iraq. But, if Saddam owes them money for those helos, they'll have to see if we'll be kind enough to allow them to pick up the pieces when we're done with them.
So, they can all boo-hoo-hoo over having chosen to slowly fade away into the appendix of future history books.
As far as the Russians, well, it looks like they're never going to get paid for all those AKs and T-72s. If they'd have played ball, at least they'd have had the chance to repo the stuff. Then they could have at least sold it at a bargain price to some other despot in a funny uniform. Could have had a "Buy One, Get One Free" sale. But now we'll have the pink slips on all that hardware.
The Germans will just have to be happy with France watching their backs from now on. Greece is desperately trying to look relevant beyond providing feta cheese and retsina. But they never sold any of that to Iraq because Saddam doesn't (or didn't, whatever the case may be) like feta cheese and had a violent dislike of spanokopita. Germany, however, sold a bit more than just weisswurst and sauerkraut to Iraq. But, if Saddam owes them money for those helos, they'll have to see if we'll be kind enough to allow them to pick up the pieces when we're done with them.
So, they can all boo-hoo-hoo over having chosen to slowly fade away into the appendix of future history books.
Silver Bullet
Member
Maybe this is playing into our hands. Aside from reconstruction contracts, do we really want to be the ones doing the cleanup work and taking the risks from regional terrorists ? Maybe we should let France and the U.N. do the grunt work; we'll have already done the heavy lifting for them !
Preacherman
Member
From the American Spectator (http://www.spectator.org/article.asp?art_id=2003_3_18_17_54_53):
The French, The French
By Jackie Mason & Raoul Felder
Published 3/19/2003 12:04:00 AM
There is a certain lawyer in town whose specialty is losing cases. He has fancy suits made that go west when his body goes east so that when he dresses up he seems to be standing perfectly straight up and down. This lawyer looks terrific but his specialty is not the law, it is shirts and ties. When it comes to the law it's not his business. He loses every case but still people want him to go to court for them. Go explain!
France is a lot like the lawyer with the corkscrew body. They may have an army and navy, but their business is not fighting -- it is giving up.
An Italian, if he meets you in a dark alley, person to person, will kill you even before you can commit suicide -- especially if you are fooling around with his wife. But put Italians together in an army and they are not so hot. Confronted by an enemy army, rather than fight, they sit down, have a little vino, some pasta, take out an accordion, sing a few songs and then give up.
France is the only country that ever lost two wars to Italians. The French have gotten the surrender business down to a science. To save time, they figured out a way to surrender even before a shot is fired. Nobody ever aimed even a bow and arrow at Paris but the Germans looked like they were going to do it and the French immediately gave up the city. The last French general who won any wars was Napoleon, but he was not a Frenchman, he was a Corsican. The first Muslims to ever defeat a western army since the Crusades were the Algerians, who kicked the French out of their country. The only war France ever won was the French Revolution and that's because they were fighting against themselves.
In the Second World War, when the Americans liberated Paris it was a culture shock to French women finally to be sleeping with men who didn't call them "Fraulein." We all remember that the French shaved the hair off women who had slept with the German occupiers, but they had to stop the hair cuts since the country was about to go into the history books as being the only nation of bald-headed women.
France's history of anti-Semitism going back to the Dreyfus Affair is almost as long as their history of giving up. The present president of France's buddy who was the Ambassador to England, at a London dinner party at a publisher's home, complained nobody should go to war "over a s---y little country like Israel." He proved, by this statement, that he was not only a bigot, but also stupid, since his host, Conrad Black, is a publisher, and one of the newspapers he publishes is the Jerusalem Post. The fact that Black's wife, who happens to be Jewish, heard of the remarks did not help matters. During the Nazi occupation, the French themselves rounded up Jews and turned them over to the Nazis. The French even scuttled their own fleet, rather than turn it over to the Americans so that they could not use it against the Germans.
The French were originally against having U.N. inspectors in Iraq in the first place, but when inspectors were appointed, they undoubtedly found comfort in the fact that the two leading inspectors' first names were Hans and Mohamed.
With or without the French, America will quickly conquer Iraq. The French are undoubtedly concerned that when the fighting is over, and all the missiles and all the other weapons that the Iraqis said do not exist show up, they probably will have "Made in France" stamped all over them.
Americans should boycott French products. The fact is, because of French cowardice the lives of American soldiers are now at greater risk. There are many items that we as Americans could do without because of their French origin. The reason the French invented perfume was that they stink, but other countries also make colognes. We all ought to walk by the counters selling Christian Dior, Chanel and Cartier. We should not take Club Med vacations nor go anywhere on Air France.
We have been indoctrinated into believing that anything with a French name has some special mystique. If you take the same garment and instead of the label saying Christian Dior, it says Hymie Lipschutz, nobody would buy it. In fact, they would probably cut off the label. Evian water is basically only as good as tap water. If you put bubbles in it, you would have seltzer, but nobody would drink it with that name. If it were called "Seltzier," seltzer would become a major hit.
We were in Paris and saw all those Parasites. Americans who have been there remark on their rudeness, the fact they never miss an opportunity to overcharge and are insulting. But look, you can stay home and get the same treatment from your wife. You will save the air fare and be patriotic, all at the same time.
Jackie Mason is a comedian. Raoul Felder is a lawyer.
The French, The French
By Jackie Mason & Raoul Felder
Published 3/19/2003 12:04:00 AM
There is a certain lawyer in town whose specialty is losing cases. He has fancy suits made that go west when his body goes east so that when he dresses up he seems to be standing perfectly straight up and down. This lawyer looks terrific but his specialty is not the law, it is shirts and ties. When it comes to the law it's not his business. He loses every case but still people want him to go to court for them. Go explain!
France is a lot like the lawyer with the corkscrew body. They may have an army and navy, but their business is not fighting -- it is giving up.
An Italian, if he meets you in a dark alley, person to person, will kill you even before you can commit suicide -- especially if you are fooling around with his wife. But put Italians together in an army and they are not so hot. Confronted by an enemy army, rather than fight, they sit down, have a little vino, some pasta, take out an accordion, sing a few songs and then give up.
France is the only country that ever lost two wars to Italians. The French have gotten the surrender business down to a science. To save time, they figured out a way to surrender even before a shot is fired. Nobody ever aimed even a bow and arrow at Paris but the Germans looked like they were going to do it and the French immediately gave up the city. The last French general who won any wars was Napoleon, but he was not a Frenchman, he was a Corsican. The first Muslims to ever defeat a western army since the Crusades were the Algerians, who kicked the French out of their country. The only war France ever won was the French Revolution and that's because they were fighting against themselves.
In the Second World War, when the Americans liberated Paris it was a culture shock to French women finally to be sleeping with men who didn't call them "Fraulein." We all remember that the French shaved the hair off women who had slept with the German occupiers, but they had to stop the hair cuts since the country was about to go into the history books as being the only nation of bald-headed women.
France's history of anti-Semitism going back to the Dreyfus Affair is almost as long as their history of giving up. The present president of France's buddy who was the Ambassador to England, at a London dinner party at a publisher's home, complained nobody should go to war "over a s---y little country like Israel." He proved, by this statement, that he was not only a bigot, but also stupid, since his host, Conrad Black, is a publisher, and one of the newspapers he publishes is the Jerusalem Post. The fact that Black's wife, who happens to be Jewish, heard of the remarks did not help matters. During the Nazi occupation, the French themselves rounded up Jews and turned them over to the Nazis. The French even scuttled their own fleet, rather than turn it over to the Americans so that they could not use it against the Germans.
The French were originally against having U.N. inspectors in Iraq in the first place, but when inspectors were appointed, they undoubtedly found comfort in the fact that the two leading inspectors' first names were Hans and Mohamed.
With or without the French, America will quickly conquer Iraq. The French are undoubtedly concerned that when the fighting is over, and all the missiles and all the other weapons that the Iraqis said do not exist show up, they probably will have "Made in France" stamped all over them.
Americans should boycott French products. The fact is, because of French cowardice the lives of American soldiers are now at greater risk. There are many items that we as Americans could do without because of their French origin. The reason the French invented perfume was that they stink, but other countries also make colognes. We all ought to walk by the counters selling Christian Dior, Chanel and Cartier. We should not take Club Med vacations nor go anywhere on Air France.
We have been indoctrinated into believing that anything with a French name has some special mystique. If you take the same garment and instead of the label saying Christian Dior, it says Hymie Lipschutz, nobody would buy it. In fact, they would probably cut off the label. Evian water is basically only as good as tap water. If you put bubbles in it, you would have seltzer, but nobody would drink it with that name. If it were called "Seltzier," seltzer would become a major hit.
We were in Paris and saw all those Parasites. Americans who have been there remark on their rudeness, the fact they never miss an opportunity to overcharge and are insulting. But look, you can stay home and get the same treatment from your wife. You will save the air fare and be patriotic, all at the same time.
Jackie Mason is a comedian. Raoul Felder is a lawyer.
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