France Tells U.S. to Sign Climate Pacts or Face Tax

[MD_Willington]

volcanic eruption

Funny thing about volcanic eruptions, if enough of them occurred at once, massive quantities of ash would be pumped into the atmosphere which would block out the sun.

Look up:
La Soufrière on Saint Vincent in the Caribbean in 1812
Mayon in the Philippines in 1814
Mount Tambora 1815

1816 is sometimes called "Year Without a Summer", "Poverty Year" or "Eighteen hundred and froze to death".

 

[cracked butt]

Climate change?

Hasn't anyone ever hear that change = opportunity?

Of course liberals have a head start on this one by using fear as an opportunity to tax and regulate.
I live in a place that can benifit greatly from global warming- longer growing season, lots of fresh water nearby, and lots of available land which will increase in value as the coastal people move inland because of increased hurricanes or rising ocean levels. I see very little on the downside.

How does the article relate to guns? Many guns are made in foundries that burn coal. Imagine an extra $5-20 tax on each gun do to their 'carbon footprint.

 

[Helmetcase]

Very little on the downside? Based on what?

Trust me, there's plenty of downside. The idea that GW just means you can wear shorts in November is extremely wrongheaded.

 

[agricola]

Climate change?

Hasn't anyone ever hear that change = opportunity?

Of course liberals have a head start on this one by using fear as an opportunity to tax and regulate.
I live in a place that can benifit greatly from global warming- longer growing season, lots of fresh water nearby, and lots of available land which will increase in value as the coastal people move inland because of increased hurricanes or rising ocean levels. I see very little on the downside.

Maybe its because I live close to a tidal river but I seem to have a more pessimistic view. I would imagine those people who would find their homes turned to desert, or put under five metres of seawater, would also take a pessimistic view.

How does the article relate to guns? Many guns are made in foundries that burn coal. Imagine an extra $5-20 tax on each gun do to their 'carbon footprint.

$5 more tax? That is the worst thing I have ever heard happen to anyone ever! Lets throw the carbon footprinted guns into Boston harbour!

 

[Jeff White]

Helmet case said;

Very little on the downside? Based on what?

Trust me, there's plenty of downside. The idea that GW just means you can wear shorts in November is extremely wrongheaded.

You say that like there is no downside to just turning off an economy that runs on fossile fuel. How much of the food you eat is produced near your home? How much fossile fuel is used to produce that food. How much fossile fuel was burned to generate the electricity that powers the discussion we're having now?

How much fossile fuel does it take to produce the raw materials that the industry that employs most of the people in your hometown?

We ceased to be an agrarian society in the 1930s. The idea that we can just turn off the fossile fiel and support 300 million people in the US on a subsistance agrarian economy is ludicrus.

The people of the industrialized nations will not just give up the standard of living they have come to enjoy. No one's idea of a socialist paradise agrarian utopia appeals to us. And we will most likely fight for our standard of living to the death.

The world moves on fossile fuels. There are no alternatives in the forseeable future. Until an alternate energy source that is as cheap as what we are currently using and doesn't have the downsides of fossile fuels is available, nothing will change. That my friend is the reality of this debate. The worlds population is not going to give up the advances made in the past 150 years. They are going to suck up whatever effects global warming brings and drive on.

Jeff

 

[nobody_special]

You say that like there is no downside to just turning off an economy that runs on fossile fuel.

Actually, he didn't say that.

The idea that we can just turn off the fossile fiel and support 300 million people in the US on a subsistance agrarian economy is ludicrus.

Clearly... but nobody here has suggested that.

The people of the industrialized nations will not just give up the standard of living they have come to enjoy. No one's idea of a socialist paradise agrarian utopia appeals to us. And we will most likely fight for our standard of living to the death.

The world moves on fossile fuels. There are no alternatives in the forseeable future. Until an alternate energy source that is as cheap as what we are currently using and doesn't have the downsides of fossile fuels is available, nothing will change. That my friend is the reality of this debate. The worlds population is not going to give up the advances made in the past 150 years. They are going to suck up whatever effects global warming brings and drive on.

There are plenty of alternatives to fossil fuels, but yes they are more expensive. Personally, I like solar thermal... it's efficient and fairly cheap. Cover a few percent of the desert southwest with reflectors and pipes and we're in good shape.

If we keep on going as we are now, we will end up with a lower standard of living. Oil prices keep going up, and climate change will reduce crop yields and increase desertification and drought. It's a long-term problem and we can't stop it in the next few decades, but studies indicate that it would be cheaper to take expensive mitigation steps now than to ignore the problem and deal with more severe consequences later.

 

[Boats]

There will be winners and losers in any feasible GW scenario. The range I have seen is between two and nine degrees on average, not 150*

I have no doubt that everyday items will get more energy efficient over time. I have seen such evolution in cars, appliances, consumer electronics, etc. When LED lights become price competitive to begin installing about the homestead, they're going in--not to save people 100 years from now, but to reduce my power bill.

My problem with the climatology cultists is the common desire for top down solutions.

They could bet their bottom Little Red Books that such solutions will be fudged, evaded, or blackmarketed out of use by governments and individuals alike.

Kyoto non-compliance and faux compliance amongst early First World adopters is already a well-publicized joke.

 

[cropcirclewalker]

CO2 produced by burning fossil fuels did not come from the atmosphere, it comes from oil and coal which was locked up in the ground. The process of burning fossil fuels adds net CO2 to the atmosphere.

I call a foul.

Oh, you mean this year? Tell me again where these fossil fuels come from?

Once again I see a conservative (who is supposedly about personal responsibility) spouting an irresponsible attitude. Just because you can't solve a problem completely doesn't mean you shouldn't try to mitigate it.

You can say "adapt or die" ... but many people don't understand the real danger of climate change. We live in our houses and cities and like to pretend that we don't depend on the ecosystem much, but it's an illusion. And while we can live in our comfortable air-conditioned homes, wildlife can't. If weather becomes more severe and drought becomes more common than it already is (as is predicted), what happens? The world is already undergoing a mass extinction, and that is bad news for whoever is at the top of the food chain.

Adaptation would be working to correct or reduce climate change.

I am not so vain as to believe that simple me, man, is so all important that my comings and goings are causing the Earth to be destroyed.

Some of the pointy headed scientists aparently are.

Makes me think of Mr. DMF (or somebody like him) who tells us that if we are so convinced that 2a grants us all the gun rights we want, then why don't we put our money where our mouth is and go out and hunt down a few atf agents.

Yeah, Even though I don't claim to know if GW is real or not I feel very confident that I am a net carbon fixer (not emitter). Like I said previous, I drive less than 4,000 miles per year. I ride my bicycle to town for the mail. I have wood heat. I work at home and wear lotsa layers of sweatshirts and my old truck has no A/C. I work to maintain my 90 acres of heavily wooded land. No livestock, pesticides, herbicides or fertilizer on my land. I value my land and I care for it. My trees are busy producing oxygen....for me and you.

Now is your chance.......those of you who are working to reduce climate change......

If you really believe that we are destroying the climate, what are you doing?

Do you drag your overweight flabby a$$ into your SUV and drive through lotsa traffic on your way to work, playing your A/C, wearing a necktie and riding the elevator up to your office on the scaityeighth floor of a climate controlled (windows won't open) building with all the lights on and muzak?

What? Not living in a cave? Beeswax candles don't get their carbon from below the earth's crust you know, the busy little bees make it from pollen.

Did all these concerned scientists fly over to Paris and do the pointy headed bobblehead puppet act to tell us about how we're destroying the planet when they could have just as easily and less harmfully sent an email?

Sorry, youse guys. If you were really serious you would be taking action, not just whining.

Otherwise I am listening to an elitist hypocrit telling me how I should live.

Ok for thee, but not for me.

Yes, now is the time for you to be an example.......Show us how to do it.......otherwise........

****.

 

[Art Eatman]

I think that there are three threads running on global warming over at APS.

This started out about the US, France, Kyoto and the possible politics. Sorta drifted, didn't it?

, Art