Frangible ammo?

[InRemorse]

Today I bought a 50-box of 9mm frangible ammo, International Cartridge Corporation.

Have any of you tested frangible ammo on ballistic gel or wood or anythning? Is the damage done suitable for self defense?

 

[krs]

It'll scare your bad guy, but then he'll probably laugh and buy you a beer.






Frangible bullets turn to dust on impact - you could almost call it vaporization, but it leaves dust.

 

[PT1911]

I shot some this weekend and was impressed.. the expansion of a 9mm round was about the size of a half dollar... the jacket all but disappeared.. I have no qualm carrying it....

They do not turn to dust on impact, the penetrate and break up doing more damage as they continue to move forward.. depending on the density of your target, the bullet will do different things... ballistics gell, it acts as mentioned above... while shooting in to stacked magazines, it was more devastating than lead bullets, FMJ's and expanded more than JHP's.

people are under the misconception that they will hit the skin and break into pieces.. that is simply not the case... they will break up as they penetrate and perhaps shatter when hitting bone or other more dense material.. in essence... you sacrifice some penetration and gain devastation.

 

[psyopspec]

They do not turn to dust on impact, the penetrate and break up doing more damage as they continue to move forward.. depending on the density of your target, the bullet will do different things... ballistics gell, it acts as mentioned above... while shooting in to stacked magazines, it was more devastating than lead bullets, FMJ's and expanded more than JHP's.

Then why is it that whenever we have a thread about using guns on snakes, the wisdom from those who've killed multiple critters with it recommend not using frangible rounds beyond 12-15 feet?

Further why does Extreme Shock not have a corner on the defensive/LE market for their frangible ammo that 'penetrates deeper, wider, and does more damage'

 

[PT1911]

Then why is it that whenever we have a thread about using guns on snakes, the wisdom from those who've killed multiple critters with it recommend not using frangible rounds beyond 12-15 feet?

Further why does Extreme Shock not have a corner on the defensive/LE market for their frangible ammo that 'penetrates deeper, wider, and does more damage'

First.. I said nothing about deeper penetration, actually said

you sacrifice some penetration and gain devastation.

as for others opinions, I cannot speak to them only my own experience... and seeing the expansion and destruction in a dense target at 30 yards was quite impressive.

 

[psyopspec]

it was more devastating than lead bullets, FMJ's and expanded more than JHP's.

I misunderstood then. I would define "devastating" in this context as "having the ability to create wound channels that precipitate massive, rapid blood loss" or "capable of penetrating through tissue to cause damage to the CNS such that an attacker would not be physically able to continue." Penetration would be a prerequisite for defending oneself from attack. One can hope superficial wounds scare the goblin away, but a round that can penetrate to the vitals if properly applied might be better to rely upon.

dense target at 30 yards

If you don't mind, what was the target?

 

[PT1911]

we were comparing different ammuntions, FMJ,s , JHP's and Lead reloades, and frangibles in about 24 inches of stacked magazines set inside cardboard.. doesnt really mimic human composition, but we were able to retrieve examples of each bullet, follow its channel, and gauge its overall effect. the frangibles expanded more and some exitted at severe angles. (when shot in the front , exitted out the rear top corner while shooting at a downward angle)

the FMJ's typically passed completely through as did the lead reloads and the JHP's,as expected, expanded some and weren't through and through shots.

I misunderstood then. I would define "devastating" in this context as "having the ability to create wound channels that precipitate massive, rapid blood loss" or "capable of penetrating to tissue to cause damage to the CNS such that an attacker would not be physically able to continue."

by devastating I was looking at the likelyhood of great internal damage beyond the main wound channel to include massive damage to internal organs throughout the body.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

There are different kinds of frangible bullets for different purposes. They may be for anti-personnel use and have a hollow cavity filled with fine shot sealed in epoxy or a plastic nose cap, e.g., the Glaser Safety Slug. These are supposed to create large, devastating wounds in flesh but break up in building materials so as not to hit someone in the next room. Or, they may be of powdered metal so as to break up and not ricochet when shot against steel targets. This would not be a very effective AP load.

 

[CWL]

To this day, frangible bullets in any configuration, have proved to be 1) extremely expensive; but 2) not any better than any well-designed JHP, or actually creating smaller wound channels when fired into ballistic gelatin. Oftentimes, frangibles will break-up before penetrating deeply-enough to do much more than superficial injury to a human.

As a frangible breaks-up, each smaller pc., loses velocity quickly so that it does not have the momentum to penetrate into human target. Contrary to claims, independent testing has shown them to penetrate very shallowly, or not break-up at all.

 

[Aka Zero]

I thought frangible was for steel targets.....

Glaser with small pellets was for self defense.

 

[Corey]

ICC does make frangible ammo for defensive use. Have shot their .45 ammo into gelatin and got about 12 inches of penetration. The base of the bullet stayed intact and penetrated the deepest. Lots of small fragments going in all directions with varying amounts of penetration. Seemed to do what it is supposed to do and the cost is comparable to the premium hollowpoints. They just are not into the "Extreme Shock" marketing style.