French surplus

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There was a gunsmith who was taking French MAS autoloaders and converting them into match rifles, using some of the AR15 parts. They typically were chambered for a .308 or a
.260 Rem. I will do a little research.
 
At least you know they have never been used in battle. But some will have been damaged when thrown down at the first sight of the invader...
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The casualty figures from Verdun belie that. It's a wonder that the French had any desire to fight after that experience. But they did. The problem with France is that it's in a bad position geopolitically, being astride the natural invasion routes, and then overextending itself colonially.
 
AlexanderA said:
The casualty figures from Verdun belie that. It's a wonder that the French had any desire to fight after that experience. But they did. The problem with France is that it's in a bad position geopolitically, being astride the natural invasion routes, and then overextending itself colonially.
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The MAS36 was not used at Verdun. Nor were the relatively few completed by 1940 much used in the Battle of France. Very poorly led (though perhaps better so than their British allies) in WWI., the carnage then led to a very dispirited armed forces by 1939 at least as poorly led by the officer corps and politically not led at all. There was very little bravery among those who used the MAS 36 in France in 1940.

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You really need to read up a little more on the Battle of France. The French had over 85,000 KIA and put up intense resistance when they were able. Their orders, unfortunately, were handled by a bunch of idiots so many of their best units ended up getting encircled and nullified.

If you want to talk about a cowardly response to the Germans, then you need to look to countries like Austria. And it's also pretty silly to be complaining about a lack of courage when OUR COUNTRY was sitting on the sidelines.

The "dropped once" business really needs to end. It's a strange country that has so much admiration for enemies and so much contempt for the oldest of allies. Who fought alongside Washington? It wasn't the English or the Germans.
 
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Ever traveled through France? EVERY SINGLE village has a statue to some French war hero. Must be a LOT of duplicates.;)
 
Speaking as a man of French descent and proudly American, most of the French rifles were only dropped once before surrender.
 
There's no selling the Battle of France as an example of French courage. You can credibly hang it on the officer corps and civilian political leaders but eye witness accounts from German, British and French sources speak repeatedly of poor unit cohesion, repeated debilitating retreats and units simply melting away in the night. The deep divisions between an officer corps that was violently anti - communist (and not entirely anti - Fascist) and a large volume of highly politicized Socialist and Communist conscript troops guided by the tennets of the Ribbentrop/Molotov Non - Aggression Pact between Germany andbthe USSR did little to foment bravery and effectiveness in 1940.

Perhaps the MAS36 saw more heroic duty among those Vichy troops that fired on US landings in North Africa in 1943? :rolleyes:

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I always pose this thought exercise to the French bashers

If by some divine provenance Canada and Germany had been picked up off the face of the globe and switched places in 1935 just how far would the Germans have made is southward by 1939?

Answer : Mexico/ possibly Honduras




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303tom,

Despite your drawings, the NRA recommended that .308 bullets be used with caution working up loads from light because the bores often measure less than
.300.

Between guy on the internet, even if I enjoy his posts, and NRA I am gonna go with the NRA.

Now I am curious to find out what the French ammo I have has for bullets. Gotta go find my micrometer and the darn ammo thanks this thread. I think I have both French and Syrian ammo somewhere.

-kBob
 
I would ask that the French bashers and those arguing against them both take it someplace else before the moderators close a topic that was reborn and refreshed for information about firearms and ammunition that some find interesting.

I read that folks seem to think the semi autos are very reliable. The guns use a direct impengment gas system like the M-16/AR15 series and dump gas and carbon in the chamber area and action. When working with the French in the mid 1970's many of the soldiers carried a soot stained kercheif in their hip pocket to wipe out the actions when they got nasty. Several French troopers complained that the guns were not reliable and cited this habit of filthifying them selves as the reason. There were malfunctions while US troops were fam firing with the rifles.

I regret not being able to be free either day I had a chance to fire the FAMAS in the early 1980's.

-kBob
 
I suspect if the French hadn`t been tied up in a military adventure of their own in Mexico during the 1860`s, they might have intervened on the part of the Confederacy.I also think if the French hadn`t had their own axe to grind, they would not have given us any military assistance during the Revolutionary war.:uhoh:
But I also suppose the Russian Czar`s :eek: pledge to give Pres. Lincoln any military assistance he needed also served to discourage both the British and the French from giving military assistance to the Confederacy. Let`s all say Nastrovia as we empty our glasses of champagne mixed with gin as we toast our allies of the past & present! :barf:

How`s that old saying go, politics makes for strange bedfellows?:uhoh:
 
As far as the battle of France is concerned, the french troops fought bravely, but were led by officers who still were thinking of battle in WW1 terms, fixed defences, they poured huge sums of money on the maginot line, and the germans just went around it and attacked thru Belgium, another key factor to the french defeat was that german tanks were equipped with radios and the french tanks were not, even though french tanks were far more superior to there german counterparts, with the lack of radios the french could not cordinate counter attacks with there tanks, while the german panzers simply out manuvered them, encircled them, and destroyed them because they could communicate with one another unlike the french.
 
I took apart a round of French made 7.5---headstamp @ 9:00-2, 3:00-59, 12:00-SF and 6:00-I. It held 49 grains of a very coarse, thick tube powder and a 142 grain flat based spitzer of .307" diameter. The bullet in the Prvi Partizan 7.5 French is the same diameter.

Here is one of my MAS 36 rifles, Juin 1940, St. Etienne---

399101768.gif

This rifle was fired at 100 yards with issue iron sights and the factory PPU ammunition featuring the .307" bullets, resulting in this target---

399101765.gif

So much for the 7.5 French bullet being .311" and also for the .308" bullets being inaccurate in the French bore.

Here's a Berthier M1917 carbine, just for grins---

394780216.gif

And a wide shot of the MAS 36---

399101767.gif

That's my living room and yes, those ammo cans are full of ammo.
-----krinko
 
Many French troops fought quite well in 1940, but for those unaware of the strategy of the Maginot Line and 'command and control' problems, plenty of reading is available...

Cosmoline: you are one of an apparent minority who doesn't simply repeat the same rumours without questioning.
 
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kBob said:
That is a nice 36, MCB.

Oh course if we know you at all we can assume that is because you did a lot of excellent restoration and clean up on it.

Nice work.

-kBob
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They were refurbed to like new and put into storage in 1960's.

I have one and like it very much as it is a very handy little rifle.
 
Check the case head diameter of your 6.5x55 cases before you do this.

If you're using American cases you're basically making 7.5mas from 30-06 resulting in extremely undersized cases at the web
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Can you explain this a little more, and where specifically to measure?

What do others use to make 7.5 French brass, or is there a good source for this brass other than buying Prvi Partisan rounds, and re-using the brass?
 
Pilot said:
Can you explain this a little more, and where specifically to measure?

What do others use to make 7.5 French brass, or is there a good source for this brass other than buying Prvi Partisan rounds, and re-using the brass?
Click to expand...

6.5x55 brass is undersized for 7.5mas when made correctly.

American ammo makers are lazy and make 6.5x55 brass with the same case head as 308/06 wich is undersized for 6.5x55mm

So 7.5x54mas is GROSSLY undersized above the rim when formed from American 6.5swedish brass.


So much for the .308" bullet inaccurate myth

HPIM0906.jpg

Hpim0816.jpg


We all just bought the correct brass from grafs




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hang fire said:
Your ignorant BS has an out dated expeoration date.
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Tsk, tsk, little man. Bad language, poor grammar, misspelling and unsupported assertions do nothing to make your imagined history any more credible.

http://www.waroverholland.nl/index.php?page=french-complaints

But one of many examples.

In any event, the dismal performance of French forces in May 1940 isn't terribly relevant given how few of them fielded the MAS 36, thanks to political corruption, poor military leadership and inept deployment. All contributing to their good, lightly used, condition.
 
At least you know they have never been used in battle. But some will have been damaged when thrown down at the first sight of the invader...
Click to expand...

I have an 1897 production Lebel Revolver with frag damage on the frame and cylinder. I seriously doubt the French Officer who was quite likely killed or severely wounded while carrying it "over the top" would agree with your assessment.
 
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RPRNY said:
Tsk, tsk, little man. Bad language, poor grammar, misspelling and unsupported assertions do nothing to make your imagined history any more credible.

http://www.waroverholland.nl/index.php?page=french-complaints

But one of many examples.

In any event, the dismal performance of French forces in May 1940 isn't terribly relevant given how few of them fielded the MAS 36, thanks to political corruption, poor military leadership and inept deployment. All contributing to their good, lightly used, condition.
Click to expand...
My ignorance is remedial, but your stupidity is forever.
 
And that's the end of this thread. So much for getting to discuss bullet diameter for 7.5mas




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