Friend of family arrested

[PATH]

They are going to nail him to the wall. I am sorry to see it hapen but that is what happens in liberal urban areas like chicago. Damned liberal anti-gun creeps!

 

[Don Gwinn]

Don Gwinn is an Peace Officer in IL.

Who's a what in where now?

Actually, I am but a humble teacher of children. And seller of computers. You may have me confused with Jeff, who actually is a peace officer in TWO towns not far from here and yet never comes to visit, the creaky old . . . . but enough about me.

 

[Jeff White]

Hi Don,
This creaky old peace officer has been working a lot, but I will stop in next time I get towards Springfield.

What we have here is Felony UUW. 720/ILCS95-24-10(from Chap 38, para 24-1) Unlawful use of weapons. The statute covers all kinds of weapons. Subsection 24-1(a)(4) covers firearms and states it is unlawful for any person to:

(4) Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode or fixed place of business any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a) (4) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions:
(i) are broken down in a non‑functioning state;
or
(ii) are not immediately accessible; or
(iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case,firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card

This is a class 4 felony. However, the staute goes on to make it a worse offense if it occurs in certain places:

(1.5) A person who violates subsection 24‑1(a)(4), 24‑1(a)(9), or 24‑1(a)(10) in any school, regardless of the time of day or the time of year, in residential property owned, operated, or managed by a public housing agency or leased by a public housing agency as part of a scattered site or mixed‑income development, in a public park, in a courthouse, on the real property comprising any school, regardless of the time of day or the time of year, on residential property owned, operated, or managed by a public housing agency or leased by a public housing agency as part of a scattered site or mixed‑income development, on the real property comprising any public park, on the real property comprising any courthouse, in any conveyance owned, leased, or contracted by a school to transport students to or from school or a school related activity, or on any public way within 1,000 feet of the real property comprising any school, public park, courthouse, or residential property owned, operated, or managed by a public housing agency or leased by a public housing agency as part of a scattered site or mixed‑income development commits a Class 3 felony.

(3) Paragraphs (1), (1.5), and (2) of this subsection (c) shall not apply to law enforcement officers or security officers of such school, college, or university or to students carrying or possessing firearms for use in training courses, parades, hunting, target shooting on school ranges, or otherwise with the consent of school authorities and which firearms are transported unloaded enclosed in a suitable case, box, or transportation package.
(4) For the purposes of this subsection (c),"school" means any public or private elementary or secondary school, community college, college, or university.
(d) The presence in an automobile other than a public omnibus of any weapon, instrument or substance referred to in subsection (a)(7) is prima facie evidence that it is in the possession of, and is being carried by, all persons occupying such automobile at the time such weapon, instrument or substance is found, except under the following circumstances: (i) if such weapon, instrument or instrumentality is found upon the person of one of the occupants therein; or (ii) if such weapon, instrument or substance is found in an automobile operated for hire by a duly licensed driver in the due, lawful and proper pursuit of his trade, then such presumption shall not apply to the driver.
(e) Exemptions. Crossbows, Common or Compound bows and Underwater Spearguns are exempted from the definition of ballistic knife as defined in paragraph (1) of subsection (a) of this Section.
(Source: P.A. 90‑686, eff. 1‑1‑99; 91‑673, eff. 12‑22‑99; 91‑690, eff. 4‑13‑00.)

So yes, your friend is in trouble. There is unfortunatley no affirmative defense he can use. I don't see any out. It all is going to depend on where this happened and what the State's Attorney's thoughts on this are. I'm a cop, not an attorney, but I don't see much chance of beating this on a gun rights defense....Unfortunatley the Illinois Constitution grants the right to bear arms subject to the police power whatever that means......

Jeff

 

[Guntalk]

Second Amendment Foundation

The SAF has a list of lawyers it can refer your friend to. These lawyers have volunteered to handle firearms cases.

www.saf.org

 

[moa]

IIRC, in Maryland, the attorney Bob Sher has been in litigation against the Maryland State Police in order to acquire a CCL. Apparenlty, so far, he has not been successful.

I think the primary reason he is suing is that he is an attorney, and comes into contact with all kinds of unsavory characters, and has to enter dangerous neighborhoods.

And, of course, as an attorney Sher is an officer of the court.

Sher sometimes sits in for G. Gordon Liddy on the Liddy radio talk show.

I think an officer of the court should be cut some slack.

 

[DCR]

Sorry for your acquaintance's situation

I fondly remember the days as a prosecutor when I spotted the judge strapping on his pistol under his robe; I asked if he minded if the cops or I had a firearm in the courtroom as well. He grinned and in so many words indicated "the more, the merrier!" From that point on, we had an unspoken understanding to cover each other if things went south.

DCR

 

[GoRon]

Thanks for all the responses. I will be seeing him this weekend at my Dads house and will pass along the organizations you all have suggested.

FYI this occured in Kendall County. The judge that set bail set it very high, he wouldn't lower it.

My friend ended up spending almost a week in jail.

He did get a lawyer right away.

He is a family and small business lawyer so this was out of his experience anyway.

 

[p35]

One courthouse I work in regularly has a set of small lockers in the entry hall with a sign that says, basically, "If you are carrying a firearm check it here". Of course, the armed security guys show up for the high stress type hearings, but it always seemed kind of leaky to me.

I personally don't mind not being allowed to carry in a courthouse- I've seen too many people do too many crazy things in the context of family problems. Once had a guy settle his divorce calmly and rationally and then, the day it was final, go home and kill himself. We went straight from the divorce to the probate- cause of death was listed as "16 gauge shotgun". Not a big step from killing yourself to killing others, and it's happened more than once.

Anyway, I'm sorry for this guy, but he should have been more careful. I expect that with a clean record it can be settled quietly.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Pro-Gun Attorney

Here's a pro-RKBA attorney in IL:

Melissa Anne Maye
602 Center Parkway, Suite C
Yorkville, IL 60560
Phone #: (630) 553-3637
Fax #: (630) 553-3635
Internet email address: [email protected]
Areas of practice - firearms manufacturers defense, (municipal suits and products liability), real estate, business transactions, general practice

She may be able to refer him to a local criminal defense attorney, if he doesn't already know a good one.

Ms. Maye is one of the pro-RKBA attorneys listed in The Shooters' Bar(SM) my list of pro-gun lawyers.

http://www.building-tux.com/dsmjd/law/lawr_list.htm

 

[JerryM]

I hope this does not bring flame, but it probably will.
All of us agree that the current gun laws are much too restrictive.

Having said that, no amount of griping will change the circumstances when we do that which is against the law. I feel some pain for the lawyer, but he is supposed to know the law, and when he does not obey, either by design or forgetfulness, then he will suffer. It should be obvious to him that the courthouse is a prohibited place, and to forget is not very excusible for a lawyer.

I hope that he does not get jail time or charged with a felony, but I have little hope that he will get off that light.

Jerry

 

[Browns Fan]

I recently visited southern Ill and voiced my concern to some of my inlaws there. They just lamented the fact that the limosine liberals up in Chicago think they own the state. Until more people in this state wake up and vote, it would appear that they do!

 

[gandog56]

Moderator



Join Date: 12-21-02
Location: Virden, IL
Posts: 5,140 1. Was the gun loaded or not? If it was unloaded, he's in a lot less trouble, as it's only the inadvertent carry into the courthouse that's actually against the law then. That's a relatively minor thing that has gone away for officers of the court before, though more for judges than anyone else.

2. Was this in Chicago or elsewhere?

I was told by a gun store owner here that they consider a gun "loaded" if the magaizine has any rounds in it, even if not in the same case as the gun.

If it's in Chicago, he's toast.

 

[dragongoddess]

Just wondering.
They don't have metal detectors in the courthouse there?
I'm also wondering since he is an officer of the court and is under threat it seems that an exception is due here. After all there are some states that allow officers of the court to have privilages that normal people don't have.

 

[Chuck Dye]

GoRon,

Since this thread has been dredged up out of the past, is there any chance of an update? Please?

Huck

 

[Wiley]

Some thoughts(?)

Based on what Jeff White wrote Subsection 24-1(a)(4)(ii) might provide an out in that it was in his briefcase, ie, 'not immediately accessible'. Also he may be able to make the argument that he never actualy entered the courthouse if the xray search picked up the gun.

From what the OP said the lawyer dosen't specialize in criminal law and not a shooter so it probably never occured to him that what he was doing was illegal. Just because you're a lawyer dosen't nessesarily mean you know all the laws.

Would be nice if, no matter how this case turns out, there is an individual who knows how the system is worked (yes, that is deliberate) gets angry enough at the anti-RKBA laws in IL to become involved in overturning them.

 

[NukemJim]

I was told by a gun store owner here that they consider a gun "loaded" if the magaizine has any rounds in it, even if not in the same case as the gun.

To the best of my knowledge that is not the case in Illinois.

As a matter of fact "fanny pack" carry with the gun unloaded but the magazine loaded and in the same compartment of the fanny pack is theorieticly legal. ( Do a search this has been discussed extensivley)

IIRC the requirements are basicly 1) No ammo in gun 2) Case designed for a firearm 3) Firearm completley enclosed.

Having said that. If I have firearms and ammo in vehicle both ammo and firearms are in seperate locked containers. There are many "anti" LEOs in the Chicagoland area and I prefer to avoid any misunderstandings.

NukemJIm

 

[ALHunter]

I am an attorney, and here's my .02 cents. He needs to find the best local criminal defense lawyer he can. Preferably one who has a good working relationship with the DA's office. He's a lawyer in the community, he needs to stay local in representation, not go outside to the NRA, GOA, or other groups.

He needs to be VERY concerned not just about the criminal prosectuion but losing his bar license. It will be bad enough if he has to serve some time, but compounded even worse if after he completes a sentence he has his bar license revoked, meaning he can't practice law again and earn a living in profession he knows.

Lots of folks mistakenly walk through metal detectors at airports with guns. Anecdotally, I think those folks get put through the ringer, but in the end I haven't heard of anyone actually serving time (doesn't mean there hasn't been anyone of course).

In the end, I think your friend will face a conviction of a felony or misdemeanor, probably a heavy fine, but no jail time. The conviction could be enough to get his bar license pulled.

Get a good criminal attorney as I suggested above. Perhaps investigate getting another attorney who has handled bar greivances or other attorney discipline cases to handle the bar license issue.

Good luck. He needs it, especially in Illinois.

 

[Wayne D]

Hey guys, this thread is two years old.

 

[Wiley]

AH-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H!

I hereby formaly request the date original post be a part of the forum list.


:banghead:

 

[torpid]

Folks talking to ghost echoes again...

 

[SIOP]

Aint a shining example of a smart attorney either

Ding Ding Ding.

Ladies and Gentlemen, the winning post in this thread.

 

[Wesker]

While Illinois is a good example of how NOT to model yourself after, even super pro-gun states like Florida, Alaska, and Texas ban guns from courtrooms, and it's illegal to carry there. Had this lawyer been busted for having it on him anywhere but a courtroom I'm sure it wouldn't be half as bad.

 

[Travis McGee]

Too bad he's not a congress critter. They'd have handed his pistol back with a salute.

 

[GoRon]

Sorry I took so long to get back to this resurrected thread, I was out of town.

He was convicted and the judge presiding was doing everything he could to make sure that was the outcome.

He spent over a year in jail and then a higher court reversed or threw out the case against him. Apparently the original judges creative way of getting the outcome in the case he wanted sowed the seeds for getting it reversed.

From what I understand his record is completely clean even though he ended up spending time in jail.

From my perspective he was guilty of breaking Illinois law. If the judge had followed the rules he would probably be in jail still. The judge used his power in an arbitrary way and the checks in the system let our family friend free because of the injust way the case was handled.

I don't know any of the particulars about the case as the info I got was second hand through my Dad and his wife. One thing I can say with some certitude was that there was no ill intent in bringing the gun to the courthouse.

 

[IndianaBoy]

Illinois is a dark stain on the Midwest. I won't even buy gas on my way across that state.