campergeek
Member
Let me get this out of the way first - this situation deals with a Remington 742 semi-auto .30-06 - which otherwise hasn't been bad to shoot (I keep it REALLY clean) - with a Simmons scope mounted on Weaver hinged rings.
I've been working with this rifle for two purposes; first to get the scope zeroed, and second to work on my own shooting skills. I've avoided using a boresighter, mainly because I don't have one but also because the "old way" of shooting a group, adjusting, shooting another group, etc. gives me extra practice at shooting groups. I'm about to give up this technique. Here's the story:
On the first outing I shot two boxes of Winchester SuperX 180 gr., starting at 25 yds. and working my way out to 100 yds. By the time I got done the zeroing wasn't bad and my shoulder and I conferred and decided to finish the job another time.
Back to the range, looking forward to more practice. This time with 1 box of Federal American Eagle FMJ boat-tail (cheap from CheaperThanDirt), and another box of Remington Core-Lokt; both in 150 gr. My idea is that I can save some money shooting the cheaper target ammo (can't use FMJ for hunting) and then double-check with the Remington. So, I set two targets at 100 yds., shoot two 4-shot groups, and find that I'm barely hitting the right edge of the paper, about 9 m.o.a. from center. Griping under my breath I adjust and bring the groups back to (roughly) center and after 40 rds. I'm done for the day.
I should interject here to say that with this rifle, having heard its reputation, I'm not expecting tack-driver accuracy. The targets I'm shooting have a 6" green area surrounding a 1" white center. If I put the shots in the green - dead deer. While I cast longing glances at other shooters' 1" groups with their bolt-action rifles, considering my tool and my experience I'm pleased with 4" groups right now - if I can get there consistently. Now back to the story:
Today I go back to the range, half expecting my groups to be way off in oblivion somewhere. To my surprise, I'm hitting just a bit high and to the right, but still on paper. Adjust down & left, now a bit too far left. Back a bit to the right, and I'm happy. Up to this point I'd been shooting with a rest under the forearm. Knowing that I won't have that benefit in the woods I decide to begin practicing by holding the rifle myself with my front elbow resting on the table (baby steps, here).
This is when everything breaks loose.
The target stand has enough space to mount two paper targets (~12" h x 16" w) one above the other. I begin by shooting at the bottom target, but can't really see what I'm hitting. Not a big deal - I often find it hard to see my shots from distance when they're in the green. After four rounds I shift to the top target and the fireworks REALLY begin.
First shot - the whole target stand tilts slightly in one direction and the lower target now has a large gash at its bottom. "Wow!", I think to myself, "I must be really pulling the shots low when I shoot from hand. I'll have to watch that."
Second shot - the stand tilts back and there's a new gash next to the first.
I shoot two more to complete the "group" before the range goes cold. Once I get down to the targets I marvel at the ability of Remington Core-Lokt to cut through the steel stand, and I mutter angrily at the fact that the affected brace is about 20" lower than my point of aim. Knowing full well that the definition of insanity is trying the same thing again expecting different results, I decide to shoot two more groups to confirm the wierdness.
This time I shoot the first group at the low target and again can't tell where I'm hitting. Then I shoot the second group at the high target. This time I'm figuring that I've got nothing to lose and I need to vent some frustration, so I decide to mix things up by trying this group with both eyes open. I still carefully concentrate on each of the four shots.
When examining the targets, I found that my second group was the best I've ever shot with this rifle - about 2", and then only because one shot was slightly astray from the other three. However, the group was fully 15 m.o.a. low and 7 m.o.a. left of my point of aim. In short, it was on the lower left corner of the low target.
Can anyone give any expert insight as to what is causing the problem? My initial impulse was that the cause is the trigger actuator (me). To test that theory I then ran about 50 rounds thru a .22 rifle at 50 yards, again shooting from hand. Those groups were not of concern. I already had suspicions about the scope, but if it's wiggling out of zero that badly, how could a single group be so good? Is this perhaps an effect of a heated barrel? And if so, then how come it happened suddenly and not gradually? It could be switching from the Federal ammo to Remington, but that's a BIG difference and I didn't see any such difference the previous session. Are the tolerances on the 742 SO bad that this is a potential problem? If so, I'm dumping right away this rifle that I can't trust to hit reliably in the woods. As you can see, I'm really unsettled about this and grasping at anything. I'm hoping that someone with more experience than I will be able to see what I'm missing.
Thanks for any advice, and for reading to the end of this tome.
I've been working with this rifle for two purposes; first to get the scope zeroed, and second to work on my own shooting skills. I've avoided using a boresighter, mainly because I don't have one but also because the "old way" of shooting a group, adjusting, shooting another group, etc. gives me extra practice at shooting groups. I'm about to give up this technique. Here's the story:
On the first outing I shot two boxes of Winchester SuperX 180 gr., starting at 25 yds. and working my way out to 100 yds. By the time I got done the zeroing wasn't bad and my shoulder and I conferred and decided to finish the job another time.
Back to the range, looking forward to more practice. This time with 1 box of Federal American Eagle FMJ boat-tail (cheap from CheaperThanDirt), and another box of Remington Core-Lokt; both in 150 gr. My idea is that I can save some money shooting the cheaper target ammo (can't use FMJ for hunting) and then double-check with the Remington. So, I set two targets at 100 yds., shoot two 4-shot groups, and find that I'm barely hitting the right edge of the paper, about 9 m.o.a. from center. Griping under my breath I adjust and bring the groups back to (roughly) center and after 40 rds. I'm done for the day.
I should interject here to say that with this rifle, having heard its reputation, I'm not expecting tack-driver accuracy. The targets I'm shooting have a 6" green area surrounding a 1" white center. If I put the shots in the green - dead deer. While I cast longing glances at other shooters' 1" groups with their bolt-action rifles, considering my tool and my experience I'm pleased with 4" groups right now - if I can get there consistently. Now back to the story:
Today I go back to the range, half expecting my groups to be way off in oblivion somewhere. To my surprise, I'm hitting just a bit high and to the right, but still on paper. Adjust down & left, now a bit too far left. Back a bit to the right, and I'm happy. Up to this point I'd been shooting with a rest under the forearm. Knowing that I won't have that benefit in the woods I decide to begin practicing by holding the rifle myself with my front elbow resting on the table (baby steps, here).
This is when everything breaks loose.
The target stand has enough space to mount two paper targets (~12" h x 16" w) one above the other. I begin by shooting at the bottom target, but can't really see what I'm hitting. Not a big deal - I often find it hard to see my shots from distance when they're in the green. After four rounds I shift to the top target and the fireworks REALLY begin.
First shot - the whole target stand tilts slightly in one direction and the lower target now has a large gash at its bottom. "Wow!", I think to myself, "I must be really pulling the shots low when I shoot from hand. I'll have to watch that."
Second shot - the stand tilts back and there's a new gash next to the first.
I shoot two more to complete the "group" before the range goes cold. Once I get down to the targets I marvel at the ability of Remington Core-Lokt to cut through the steel stand, and I mutter angrily at the fact that the affected brace is about 20" lower than my point of aim. Knowing full well that the definition of insanity is trying the same thing again expecting different results, I decide to shoot two more groups to confirm the wierdness.
This time I shoot the first group at the low target and again can't tell where I'm hitting. Then I shoot the second group at the high target. This time I'm figuring that I've got nothing to lose and I need to vent some frustration, so I decide to mix things up by trying this group with both eyes open. I still carefully concentrate on each of the four shots.
When examining the targets, I found that my second group was the best I've ever shot with this rifle - about 2", and then only because one shot was slightly astray from the other three. However, the group was fully 15 m.o.a. low and 7 m.o.a. left of my point of aim. In short, it was on the lower left corner of the low target.
Can anyone give any expert insight as to what is causing the problem? My initial impulse was that the cause is the trigger actuator (me). To test that theory I then ran about 50 rounds thru a .22 rifle at 50 yards, again shooting from hand. Those groups were not of concern. I already had suspicions about the scope, but if it's wiggling out of zero that badly, how could a single group be so good? Is this perhaps an effect of a heated barrel? And if so, then how come it happened suddenly and not gradually? It could be switching from the Federal ammo to Remington, but that's a BIG difference and I didn't see any such difference the previous session. Are the tolerances on the 742 SO bad that this is a potential problem? If so, I'm dumping right away this rifle that I can't trust to hit reliably in the woods. As you can see, I'm really unsettled about this and grasping at anything. I'm hoping that someone with more experience than I will be able to see what I'm missing.
Thanks for any advice, and for reading to the end of this tome.