ken grant
Member
Anyone have any thoughts on Wolf variable power recoil springs?
What would be the purpose in using them instead of stock springs?
THANKS
KEN
What would be the purpose in using them instead of stock springs?
THANKS
KEN
FUFF,DAVE,TUNER or ?
- Thread starter ken grant
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Black Snowman
Member
I'm no expert but I have an opinion on the matter First lets look at what they are.
Progressive/Variable springs are engineered to have a variable increase in power as they are compressed. Say we have 2 springs, one variable and one static with the same compressed weight. At some point below full compression the progressive/variable spring will be at a lower tension.
Ideally, to minimize battering I would think you would want a spring engineered so that it has higher spring tension at the back of the stroke, through stripping the round and starting to feed it to the chamber, then have it drop off sharply to lessen the impact of the slide locking up.
How the springs are ACTUALLY engineered (if they are engineered at all) I'm not certain but the ones I've seen appear to be an even progression. Where the tension per unit length increases as the spring compresses. So, the deceleration and re-acceleration occurs more at the back of the slide stroke. This gives lots of power for stripping off a round but also means the round may have less time to feed requiring a stronger magazine spring. Plus you may get a "snappier" recoil as more deceleration is done over less time.
Depending on what compression the springs are tested at for weight it may require a heavier progressive spring to provide the same dampening as a linier rate spring.
When I upgraded my Delta Elite, I went with a standard 20 lbs Wolff spring with a conventional guide rod and took other steps for increasing dwell time on the lock-up.
Don't know if this helps or is even accurate. Let's see if I'm praised or get ripped apart by those who know
First lets look at what they are.Progressive/Variable springs are engineered to have a variable increase in power as they are compressed. Say we have 2 springs, one variable and one static with the same compressed weight. At some point below full compression the progressive/variable spring will be at a lower tension.
Ideally, to minimize battering I would think you would want a spring engineered so that it has higher spring tension at the back of the stroke, through stripping the round and starting to feed it to the chamber, then have it drop off sharply to lessen the impact of the slide locking up.
How the springs are ACTUALLY engineered (if they are engineered at all) I'm not certain but the ones I've seen appear to be an even progression. Where the tension per unit length increases as the spring compresses. So, the deceleration and re-acceleration occurs more at the back of the slide stroke. This gives lots of power for stripping off a round but also means the round may have less time to feed requiring a stronger magazine spring. Plus you may get a "snappier" recoil as more deceleration is done over less time.
Depending on what compression the springs are tested at for weight it may require a heavier progressive spring to provide the same dampening as a linier rate spring.
When I upgraded my Delta Elite, I went with a standard 20 lbs Wolff spring with a conventional guide rod and took other steps for increasing dwell time on the lock-up.
Don't know if this helps or is even accurate. Let's see if I'm praised or get ripped apart by those who know
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Variable
I'd say mah man Black Snowman pretty well nailed the technical end of it. Put simply, the variable spring gives the rated load at full compression as installed, but feels like a much lighter spring when the slide is in battery and ya hand-cycle it.
Some folks swear by'em...Some swear at'em. I've never used'em, so I can't make a call either way except to say that I don't see any real advantage over the standard rate springs that worked for...oh...about 75 or 80 years. If I get bored this winter, I may order a couple and play with'em to see what's shakin'.
I'd say mah man Black Snowman pretty well nailed the technical end of it. Put simply, the variable spring gives the rated load at full compression as installed, but feels like a much lighter spring when the slide is in battery and ya hand-cycle it.
Some folks swear by'em...Some swear at'em. I've never used'em, so I can't make a call either way except to say that I don't see any real advantage over the standard rate springs that worked for...oh...about 75 or 80 years. If I get bored this winter, I may order a couple and play with'em to see what's shakin'.
Dave Sample
member
If De Tuner wasn't such a secret agent, I would send him a spring kit to try. I have a custom kit assembled by Wolff for the PATRIOT 1911 Online Class guns that works very well in Caspians. All he has to do is PM me an address and I will send him a kit.. I don't care if it's a PO box or even his real address. I like the VP recoil springs in 16 1/2 lbs for Government Model 1911 Semi-Automatic Pistols. Now I guess I need some valid excuse, but I will have to invent one because I cannot prove any reason for using this Kit. The type of guns that I build, and have my students build, run 100% with this spring kit, unless someone else messes with them. I have never felt the need to justify anything I do because what I do, WORKS. That is why I do it! The springs I use are a part of that formula. I chose them with care and then we install them, and lo and behold, the guns run. I view the 1911 as a highly balanced machine built way back when with a lot of overkill in the factory springs that tend to disturb that original design for safety reasons and now, litigation by bottom feeders. I like a gun that drops a magazine with ease, fires a variety of factory ammo or hand loads, has a very nice trigger pull and performs like a little machine should without modification after the fact or just because "so and so said thus and so." I like to change recoil springs when the 1911 reaches a 2000 round count or when I think the spring is too short for reliable service. I like shok-buffs and one piece recoil spring guides in these guns and some other things that are up for discussion by people who think they know all the answers, but rarely do. The fact is , that I can put these guns where my mouth is and have done so in many places. I hope this dumb post gets through to a few of you, and am sorry to do a rant.
2002 Omline 1911 Class "in the white"
2002 Omline 1911 Class "in the white"
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Secret Agent Man!
I...I just can't do it Cap'n. I'm scairt that I might like'em, and then I'd hafta admit you was right.
I kinda like bein' a secret agent, though...Ya just never know who you're talkin' to on the World Wide Web. I could be anybody from the Viscount of Lower Slobovia
to the great-great granddaughter of JMB hisself!
Take my name f'rinstance...Is that REALLY my name...or ain't it? And if it ain't...
what are the chances that I just plucked it right outta thin air?
Cheers!
Bond...Tuner Bond
I...I just can't do it Cap'n. I'm scairt that I might like'em, and then I'd hafta admit you was right.
I kinda like bein' a secret agent, though...Ya just never know who you're talkin' to on the World Wide Web. I could be anybody from the Viscount of Lower Slobovia
to the great-great granddaughter of JMB hisself!
Take my name f'rinstance...Is that REALLY my name...or ain't it? And if it ain't...
what are the chances that I just plucked it right outta thin air?
Cheers!
Bond...Tuner Bond
ken grant
Member
Tuner
I KNOW BUT WILL NOT TELL!!!!!!!!!
Tuner,my man,How are the collies doing?
When you get time this winter,I want to make a deal with you
Yo friend,KEN
I KNOW BUT WILL NOT TELL!!!!!!!!!
Tuner,my man,How are the collies doing?
When you get time this winter,I want to make a deal with you
Yo friend,KEN
Dave Sample
member
God forbid that I be right, 007. I understand, I do. You must have heard about me when I was Sam Pearlman in the good old days. I don't do that kind of work anymore..................................................or do I? Rest easy, Old Friend. I did not think I left anyone around to talk about those days...................oh well. let's just forget the whole thing, huh?
Number Two in the shop. I called her "Black Beauty"..........................
What a time that was back then ,Tuner.........................
Number Two in the shop. I called her "Black Beauty"..........................
What a time that was back then ,Tuner.........................
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Let's make a Deal!
Ken, mah fren...I got the time if'n you've got the gas to get here.
These Collies got two speeds...Wide open and stopped. Might have a fifth one soon.
Ken, mah fren...I got the time if'n you've got the gas to get here.
These Collies got two speeds...Wide open and stopped.
Might have a fifth one soon.1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Whatta Ride
Black Beauty...Ahhhh
Quote:
What a time that was back then ,Tuner.........................
____________
Better not go there. I've used up alla my 5th Amendments for this lifetime.
Black Beauty...Ahhhh
Quote:
What a time that was back then ,Tuner.........................
____________
Better not go there. I've used up alla my 5th Amendments for this lifetime.
Can I be a Secret Agent too ????
Nobody knows who I am ... Dave can’t be 007 cuz he never carried one of those “new school†.45’s ... I don’t think any real Secret Agent could take one of those seriously, but they might work for a villain like “Doctor Maybe.â€
Agents like 007 carry little guns, like a Beretta 6.25mm. I can visualize what one would look like if Dave worked it over ...
Nobody knows who I am ... Dave can’t be 007 cuz he never carried one of those “new school†.45’s ... I don’t think any real Secret Agent could take one of those seriously, but they might work for a villain like “Doctor Maybe.â€
Agents like 007 carry little guns, like a Beretta 6.25mm. I can visualize what one would look like if Dave worked it over ...
ken grant
Member
Dave's car
That is a beaut!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I like the new stuff!
1970 Boss 302
1970 428 CJ
1970 MACH ONE 351 Cleveland
That is a beaut!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I like the new stuff!
1970 Boss 302
1970 428 CJ
1970 MACH ONE 351 Cleveland
stans
Member
Ferrari 308 GTS, red..... in my dreams!!!!!! 
Reality is a Honda CRV.
Reality is a Honda CRV.
Dave Sample
member
I know this is going to be hard to believe, but I do have a 007 Secret Agent Gun that I worked over. It's a $120.00 9X18 FEG that I re worked and it is around here somewhere. I got it 14 years ago and carried it as a back up on the last JOB. It looks stock ,though, so O.F would not like it the way he does my Blingers! It is a DA/SA and just a tad more that a .380. It also has the last four of my SS number so I can never sell it. Magazine numbered to match. It fit in my boot nice and I kind of miss it now when I only carry The LW Commander. Oh well, that is what it's like to get to be an ancient one!
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