Full-auto on boat/yacht?

[1KPerDay]

I heard a rumor that you can have pretty much anything you want on a yacht. If so, what do you need to do to purchase a full-auto? Do you have to follow the full-auto laws in your home state/where the yacht is titled?

Do you have to purchase pre-1986 FA or can you get modern stuff?

Any info would be helpful. thanks

 

[exar]

IANAL...but I hear yacht's are treated as a vehicle and, in some instance's, a home(kinda like a trailer that is stationary is considered a domicile). So, with that said, if all your local laws allow possession of NFA items, and you follow all the regulations pertaining to those laws, then no problemo bringing them on board. Since you must follow the law though, I seriously doubt you will be getting your hands on anything post '86 unless you're one of the elite.

 

[Erik]

What you have on the high seas is one thing, what you have in waters claimed by a sovereign state another; as such the laws apply.

 

[GRIZ22]

What you have on the high seas is one thing, what you have in waters claimed by a sovereign state another.

Well yes and no. If your yacht is U.S. registered it is technically part of the U.S. As such, if you posssess things illegal in the U.S., it doesn't make any difference where in the world you are U.S. law can be applied. It's called extraterritorial law. A U.S. registered vessel can be boarded and inspected by the USCG anywhere on the high seas and even in another country's waters with permission from that country.

If you have a legal NFA weapon on your yacht you still need to be concerned with rules regarding the export and importation of that weapon. Every time you go out past 3 miles that's an export. Come back in that's an import.

 

[Ed Ames]

A U.S. flagged yacht is subject to US laws wherever it is and is also subject to foreign laws when in foreign waters/ports. That's correct.

However...going out past 3 miles isn't an export. You can sail from California to Hawaii or Alaska all you want for example, it isn't importing or exporting. Even going to a port in another nation may not technically be an export as far as the USA is concerned.

And... just to raise your caution levels... not only can the USCG board US flagged vessel in international water but they claim the right (by force) to board ANY nation's vessels in international waters. They routinely board foreign flagged yachts. As a result, other nation's coast guards often take the same liberty with US flagged vessels. They are not supposed to enforce their own laws but since what we (and they) are doing is legally very questionable what they are supposed to do hardly matters.

 

[deanf]

but they claim the right (by force) to board ANY nation's vessels in international waters.

Are you saying that they do this because in international waters the USCG is not subject to any laws? Isn't that piracy? Wouldn't one be free to repell them with force then?

 

[EricTheBarbarian]

Wouldn't one be free to repell them with force then?

lol good luck, thats a good way to get ur battleship sunk

 

[TexasRifleman]

I heard a rumor that you can have pretty much anything you want on a yacht

Sure, but you can't EVER come into port. The really rich guys, think Adnan Khashoggi, arm their yachts to the teeth and send in smaller boats to port for groceries etc and only come into port with the big boat in countries that are either friendly towards those type of weapons, or can be bribed.

If you can afford that you are prolly not surfing THR

 

[AZTOY]

Deep-Sixed the Guns off Mexico..



http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=243454&highlight=mini-14

 

[takhtakaal]

Wouldn't one be free to repell them with force then?

Those ocean-going cutters have 76mm automatic cannons and twin hard-point mounted M2s fore and aft. You really wanna slug it out with them?

 

[Telemundo]

I'm working with a retired USCG 'sailor' and he's opened my eyes to the dark side of that organization. Any place, any time for any reason. It doesn't have to be a boat, either. Even on land the USCG has jurisdiction under most circumstances. He knows I'm a big 4th A supporter and constantly makes digs at me about how he's held countless boat owners at low-ready gunpoint while they searched for 'proper safety equipment' ...(drugs).

 

[Ed Ames]

Are you saying that they do this because in international waters the USCG is not subject to any laws? Isn't that piracy? Wouldn't one be free to repell them with force then?

It's not called piracy because everyone is too polite to call it that.

There are laws... they date back centuries.... the US doesn't recognize themselves as subject to them any more. It creates a bit of a constant back and forth. The USCG will board and inspect a French-flagged sailboat with French crew in international waters and next thing you know France is boarding a US-flagged yacht. Back and forth, back and forth. We apply our standards (especially regarding drugs), they apply their standards, and the only reason anybody is even close to safe is that the average ocean is very very large and there aren't many coast guard (and similar) vessels even if you count every nation's fleet.

And yeah, you can try to repel boarders... you'll die but you can try. They have machine guns, cannons, aircraft, and very good communications gear.

 

[gunshow]

Don't register your vessel in the U.S. (the cruise ships don't) or you're subject to tyrannical "laws" passed by congress.

Once you're outside any nation's territorial waters, build all the full autos you want. You just can't bring them home to the "land of the free." You have a dozen some odd nations you can choose from where you can get full autos for dirt cheap. The downside? You'll NEED those full autos when dealing with various threats on the high seas.

Conclusion: liberty is the most sought after thing in this world because it's been mostly destroyed.

 

[Zangetsu]

So let's say you register your boat with that small country that is little more than an abandoned military fort that's been stacked with servers that host sites and services that pretty much every other country on the planet says are illegal; they have no gun laws in "Sea Land" (which is its real name....really), so if what you're saying is true, than you should be able to have pretty much whatever you want on that boat if you are in international waters, because I'm pretty sure that they don't have laws on most things in that country. How would this work if you had your boat registered through them?

And just to prove that I'm not making this up, enjoy a link

 

[gunshow]

Getting in touch with that joke of a country "sealand" to register with them would be next to impossible. They don't even take visa applications for visitors.

From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand :

In a 1990 court case[citation needed] in the United States regarding registering ships in Sealand (as a flag of convenience), the court ruled against allowing Sealand flagged vessels; the case was never contested by the Bateses.

Sealand's constitution was instituted in 1974. It consists of a preamble and seven articles. The preamble asserts Sealand's independence, while the articles variously deal with Sealand's status as a constitutional monarchy, the empowerment of government bureaus, the role of an appointed, advisory Senate, the functions of an appointed, advisory legal tribunal, a proscription against the bearing of arms except by members of a designated "Sealand Guard," the exclusive right of the sovereign to formulate foreign policy and alter the constitution, and the hereditary patrilinear succession of the monarchy.[30] Sealand's legal system is claimed to follow British common law, and statutes take the form of Decrees enacted by the Sovereign.[31]

No persons other than those members of Sealand Guard whether Citizens of Sealand or of any other description or persuasion shall normally be permitted to carry arms of any kind within the territories of the Principality for any purpose.

So much for me getting my Sealand carry permit by mail

Better idea: build a new and larger fort in international waters and form your own country. "sealand" is crumbling and will eventually fall into the ocean. It will cost them more to repair it after their fire than to build a new one. If you've got the money for a yacht, you have the money to build two hollow concrete legs and a platform with a house on it. Now that I think of it, let's start a website and a collection to build one for the sole purpose of manufacturing full auto M2s and other "desirables." We'll call it "2nd Amendment Land." You come to visit our country, you assemble your own mg and take it with you. After we've got some big guns protecting it, we declare sovereignty.

 

[Trebor]

There is no easy way or "loophole" to get full-auto weapons in the U.S.

In fact, carrying ANY weapons at sea opens you up to other legal risks. For instance, say you have a pistol in your boat and you sail into Canada. That gun is contraband as soon as you touch Canadian soil.

To own a MG legally you have to do the paperwork and pay the freight. There is no cheap and easy way to do it.

 

[GRIZ22]

However...going out past 3 miles isn't an export. You can sail from California to Hawaii or Alaska all you want for example, it isn't importing or exporting. Even going to a port in another nation may not technically be an export as far as the USA is concerned.

Well yes and no. A vessel going from California to Hawaii has left the U.S., has had the ability to meet other vessels at sea and transfer cargo either way, and can be subject to a Customs search on arrival in Hawaii.

And... just to raise your caution levels... not only can the USCG board US flagged vessel in international water but they claim the right (by force) to board ANY nation's vessels in international waters. They routinely board foreign flagged yachts.

USCG does board foreign flag vessels on the high seas. Fishing rights go out to 200 miles which give them legal authority. Other boardings of foreign flag vessels on the high seas are done with permission. A phone call to the embassy or consulate. Some countries (UK is one I believe) give blanket permission to board any vessel flying their flag. We certainly have arrangements made with other countries both ways.

host sites and services that pretty much every other country on the planet says are illegal

Vessels registered with such a country would probably be treated by all countries the same as stateless vessels. Anyone can board them anywhere. You are not going to get much respect and protocol for a country that exists only for illegal activity.

 

[woodybrighton]

sealand probably does'nt do anything that naughty or it owners would find themselves in a British jail.
not because the sbs would assault the place guns blazing why bother when you can send the local bobby around to arrest them at there uk houses where they spend most of the time
Sealand exists because its no real bother if it became an irritant it would be closed down.
if push comes to shove on the high sea taking naval forces on with small arms is
a sure way to die

 

[General Geoff]

The high seas are an interesting thing, it's anarchy and/or martial law, depending on how you look at it. Legality of machine guns is questionable in international waters; the issue isn't of statutes, it's an issue of whatever organization is boarding you, and finds out about said machine guns, and what their policies (official or personal opinion) are about said weapons.

 

[rino451]

Bit of a thread hijack - What does one do for personal protection when out there? Assuming one was to adopt the cruising lifestyle, making frequent ports of calls?

 

[Ed Ames]

A vessel going from California to
Hawaii has left the U.S., has had the ability to meet
other vessels at sea and transfer cargo either way,
and can be subject to a Customs search on arrival in
Hawaii.

Technically all vessels in US waters are subject to customs search... but, and this is critical, if you sail from Cal to Hawaii you do NOT need to report to customs upon arrival. If you go from Cal to Mexico and then back to Cal you do.

It's no different than flying from California to Hawaii or Alaska... the airplane spends a lot of time outside of US airspace but you don't need to go back through customs even though you could theoretically have landed along the way (and I'm not just talking airliners here).

USCG does board foreign flag vessels on the high seas. Fishing rights go out to 200 miles which give them legal authority. Other boardings of foreign flag vessels on the high seas are done with permission.

Boardings of foreign flag vessels on the high seas (beyond 200 miles) do happen. The US has routinely failed to get permission from the flag state before doing "safety" boardings and that has caused issues. Not everyone is happy with US policies in this regard.



As for personal protection on the water... if you know you are going to stay in US or international waters port-to-port you can take anything that is legal in both ports. If you are traveling internationally some people will bring firearms along to just before the last legal port and then dump them at sea... they then buy new guns next time they are in a position to do so. In general it's one of those "you sometimes have to take risks in life" issues.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Bit of a thread hijack - What does one do for personal protection when out there? Assuming one was to adopt the cruising lifestyle, making frequent ports of calls?

Friends of mine that have done it do just what several have posted, they buy cheap shotguns in the US and dump them overboard if they have to enter a country that is unfriendly.

Cost of doing business basically......