Ruger1228, again, this stuff does not lock me up, I can full length size to minimum length, I can size a case for a short chamber that is .012 thousandths shorter than a minimum length case. I can also size a case that is the same length as the chamber without taking wild guestimates of a turn of the die, all of my presses and dies have threads, 1 turn of my die in my press is = to .071429, if I choose to verify the 1 turn off the shell holder I measure the gap between the shell holder and die. To most reloaders that does not make sense but for me when forming 7.7 Japanese cases from 30/06 cases I use a gap of .320” between the bottom of a 308W forming die and the top of the shell holder, after forming the case must be full length sized, for the 7.7 Japanese case I use an old Herters set of dies.
The incoherent part: A collector/shooter/reloader wanted to know a source for 7.7 cases, with everything he was involved in the price of 7.7 new cases was a price he chose not to pay, so he went to the Internet, the value of his answers totaled to ZERO, I contacted him and offered to form cases for his 7.7 and and ship them to him, I formed 60 cases with 6 different head stamps, new match LC, new R-P Remington, new LC, and once fired cases etc..
I sized 20 cases to minimum length, that would be .005 thousandths longer than a go-gage length chamber, my instruction to him for the group 1 cases was to load and fire, the second group included the instructions that stated these cases should chamber with the slightest effort when closing the bolt, the third group came with the instructions that stated these cases are .010 thousands longer from the head of the case to its shoulder than the length of a minimum length case ‘AND SHOULD NOT CHAMBER!, (the incoherent part) I sent him 20 cases that were .005 thousandths shorter than a go-gage, I sent him 20 cases that were the same length as a go-gage, I sent him 20 cases that were the same length as a no go-gage from the head of the case the the shoulder.
Keeping up, not possible, I could have said ‘datum’ but I would have lost everyone because the datum for the 7.7 is .375 (3/8”) and the 308W is .400” (2/5”), and then I could say none of this forces me to the curb.
For those that can grasp the incline plain (threads used on the die and in the press) sizing is about a narrow window between minimum length/full length sized (new, over the counter, factory ammo) and the go-gage length chamber, for the 30/06 type chambers the difference is .005 thousandths, the .005 difference is a matter of having having a case that is .005 thousandths shorter than the chamber from the face of the bolt to the shoulder by .005, if a case that has the same length as the chamber from the head of the case to its shoulder the difference is .000.
For years the instructions started with adjusting the die in 1/4 turns, 1/2 turns and 3/4 turns, then it went to degree as in 1/4 turn = .017+ thousandths, the incoherent part, I said there is a narrow window of adjustment when sizing a fired case to minimum length/full sizing, so 1/4 to 1/2 turn off the shell holder is neck sizing with total disregard to sizing the case to fit the chamber.
I have dies, lots of dies, I have neck sizing dies, small base dies, case forming dies, lots of case forming dies, again, if I had one case forming die it would be the 308W, next would be the 243 forming die, for those that can not see the correlation between the incline plain, threads per inch and gap between the shell holder and the bottom of the die are left with making wild guestimates in 1/4 turns, degrees of a turn converted to thousandths or percentages, those that do not understand correlation do not understand the concept of verifying, again, If I was making wild guestimates I could check my wild guestimate by verifying, the feeler gage is a verifying tool, it is a standard, it is a transfer.
I could make reliable adjustments with a depth gage or dial caliper, meaning I can measure the gap at the top of the die or below the die between the die and shell holder but that would be incoherent concept, to convince someone that is possible I would have to explain the concept of .000 ZERO, meaning if I raise the die .005” off the shell holder the die protruding above the press also .005”, then the conversation would take the ugly turn toward “Did the tool come from Japan and or China?” Harbor Freight?” “Is the tool a Brown & Sharp” (not the same company as B&S of R.I.), the feeler gage is the humblest most modest of tools.
Then there is ‘time as a factor, I have formed wildcat cases with loads that were at or above maximum load, and I was told I was going to blow-up something, time as a factor is another concept when applied to a reloading forum goes into the category of incoherent. After that those that do not understand the events that follow pulling the trigger say the case shorten, I have a friend that built 5 magnificent rifles, they made the reamer, 5 of the first 10 cases fired had incipient case head separation. I told him I could have told him what was going to happen before he left the shop, I told him I could have fixed the problem (long enough to form his cases) had I met him at the range.
F. Guffey
