Fun to shoot AND pocket carry

[rondog]

Wow, you have a P238 and it's too big?

 

[HKGuns]

The Kahr pocket 9mm series, pick the one you can afford, are the most shootable pocket 9mm I have shot.

I've shot a ton of them and most are not fun for more than one mag.

 

[MICHAEL T]

My Colt Mustang can go over 100 rounds easy . I can do 50 with the P3AT and a 100 with P-32 . I shot a 100 one day with my PF-9 Won't do it again.

I think 50 rounds is enough for a small pocket pistol . I really wonder if more that 50 your betting any real benefit .

 

[bgw45]

+1 for the Kahr CM-9. It's frame size/weight, although not much heavier, absorbs recoil making felt recoil very similar to the .380s being considered. I sold a Ruger LCP and purchased a Kahr CW.380. The Kahr is more accurate than the Ruger and has less felt recoil. Then I shot a Kahr CM9. Love it and it is my primary pocket pistol.

I'll go back to the .380 only when my pockets won't truly conceal my CM9. JMHO

 

[d2wing]

I have a Diamondback DB380 that I really like. At first I had jamming problems so I sent
it back and the factory replaced just about everything but the frame. Anyway after I got it back it has been great.
It is very light and small but is very easy to shoot and I am impressed with the accuracy.
I like it better than my DB9 which is a handful and not nearly as accurate.
It checks all the boxes. The drawback is that some do have issues as do many tiny pistols shooting higher power rounds. The factory did make mine right at no cost.

 

[toivo]

The Pico had the best sights by far. They were adjustable and akin to traditional service pistol sights. And man is this thing thin! Easily slimmer than all the rest. I wasn't a huge fan of the mag release. Fit and finish was superb. And it felt nice in the hand.

Whatever you do, try before you buy. I bought a Pico when they first came out, and I found the trigger despicable. I know it's a carry gun and not a target gun, but I found it difficult to shoot accurately because I had to actually shift my grip mid-pull to get the trigger to finally break.

They may have improved it by now -- I don't know.

 

[jenrob]

My wife has a glock 42 and a 43. The 43 is slightly larger. It's not to big for pocket carry put it does push the limits. The 42's smaller size is great. I'm not a fan of the .380. Nothing against it just most that I shot have just as much kick as a comparable 9. Now the 42 is a different animal. I know there are other nice .380's out there. The 42 shoots like a 22 mag. Was one of the most enjoyable firearms I have shot in a while. The 43 for some reason the trigger was hard on my finger. It had a nice pull but after several mags my trigger finger felt like is was raw. The 42 I can easily put 2-300 rounds down range. There are smaller .380's out there but this one has my attention enough I'm seriously looking at getting one for myself cause my wife won't give me hers.

 

[chicharrones]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I went to Academy this weekend. Got to fondle the Taurus Curve, Remington RM380, Body Gaurd and Beretta pico.

The remington was all metal. Which was a pleasant surprise. It was the heaviest of the bunch, but well within normal weight for this class. Decent sights. And should be good for accurate hits on a man size target out to 25+ yards.


At this point, I'm most excited about the Pico and the Remington. But experience tells me, all bets are off until that hammer falls. I'll reserve final judgement till then.

I went to the local gun range today to shoot some pistols with a couple of co-workers. Lo and behold they had a Remington RM380 there. I got to hold it and look it over. From what I had read about it recently, I knew I liked the features it has and it's lineage from Rohrbaugh.

Anyway, it was $353.00 before tax and it became mine right then and there. I took it to the firing line, lubed it with some oil I had on hand and put 80 rounds through it as that is all the .380 ammo I had with me.

First thing to understand is the trigger. It is a double action only hammer fired gun with restrike capability. It feels very similar to a snub nose DAO trigger, but the stacking is at the end of the stroke for the RM380 instead of at the middle of the stroke like my Taurus 85UL is.

This type of trigger will be an obstacle to people that prefer single action only triggers. Once a shooter gets past that or is already accustomed to that, this RM380 is a real sweet shooter. Below are my observations why.

1. The slide is tall and has more mass than a LCP/P3AT. Think 1911 slide height vs. CZ75 slide height. This allows the dual recoil springs to be a bit softer on the RM380. This makes the RM slide super easy to operate due to the larger grip area and softer feeling springs. This also seems to absorb felt recoil.

2. The aluminum frame has removable grip panels. This widens the RM380 a bit over a LCP/P3AT. That wider grip also makes recoil feel softer.

3. While the sights are appropriately small on the RM380, they are huge compared to other pocket guns. The sights are sharply squared and there is ample light around the front post when the sights are lined up. Basically, the sights are easily seen if lighting is good.

4. The slide does lock back when the mag is empty. Yet, the left grip panel profile masks the slide stop from being interfered with by fingers. So, accidental slide lock on a still loaded magazine should be unlikely.

5. The ambidextrous mag release will make this a good gun for lefties and righties.

6. Of the two magazines included with the gun, one has a finger extension. It feels good and it will support the pinky with people with mid to small sized hands.

Today, I also fired my coworkers' Bersa Thunder .380 and a Ruger LCP alongside the new Remington RM380. In terms of felt recoil, the LCP was the harshest. The RM truly felt about as smooth as the Bersa. I attribute that to the Bersa being a blowback gun regardless that the Bersa was larger. I also think that because the RM380 is a hair oversized (like it was meant to be a 9mm) that it adds to the feeling that RM380 is shooting "down a class".

The only other way to explain it is like shooting my TCP .32 ACP vs. the same sized TCP .380 ACP, or shooting .38 Special in a .357 Magnum gun.

I can tell you I do like the RM380.

 

[ratt_finkel]

I'm 5'6" about 145 lbs. Athletic and muscular build. I wear small gloves, medium gloves are usually a touch too big. So basically I have big hands for a girl LOL

Anyway, my P238 with 6rd mag my bottom pinkie just hangs off the grip. With the +1 grip extension I can get my full hand on it. With my Remora holster, the gun DOES fit in the back pocket of my jeans. But slightly protrudes out. Which isn't a big deal since we can open carry here in Texas. But I don't want to open carry, and if I did, it wouldn't be my back pocket. And it wouldn't be a pocket gun LOL. But I digress.

I understand some people can pocket carry larger guns. But for me, yes, the P238 is just a tad too big. I do believe some of the options I listed will fit the bill.

Of course, I could always switch holsters on the P238 since what I have now is made for IWB. PS, I normally carry an SR9c with no issues for those wondering.

I recently was wearing a back brace and it prevented hip carry, hence my desire to find something that was conceable in a pocket.

 

[stchman]

"Pocket Carry" and "Fun" are basically mutually exclusive.

Even though I do not find the LCP (or my J-Frame) to be fun to shoot, I can shoot it accurately enough for SD purposes.

I agree 100%. I have a Ruger LCP and it is very unpleasant firearm to shoot. I shoot it every once in a while to check function, but there is no "fun" involved. My LCP is my go to carry gun.

A pocket carry pistol is going to be small and light. Small and light do not mitigate recoil very well, just the physics of it, so one has to decide which is more important.

 

[toivo]

"Pocket Carry" and "Fun" are basically mutually exclusive.

Respectfully disagree. A P238 is small enough to pocket carry and is still fun to shoot.

I would say that those two categories are "zero sum" -- as one increases, the other decreases. Still, it's possible to strike a balance.

 

[Fiv3r]

The S&W BG, but maybe the Pico?

Well my long time candidate for a pocket pistol has been the M&P Bodyguard. The grooved grip and "real" substantial feel of the gun made it more fun to shoot than the LCP. However, "fun" isn't what I would call it. 70 rounds and I would pretty much be done, but it's softer shooting than the LCP. Still, great little pistol.

Then about a week and a half ago, I went to the range. I pulled out the BG, loaded up some SIG 100gr fmj, BANG *click* shift my hand, mag falls free. Maybe I hit the mag release. I try it again, same results. I try my other mag. Same results. I fire it with one finger, mag drops like a rocket:banghead:

So it's back @ S&W. I'm sure they'll fix 'er up However, I have less than 400 rounds through it, so I don't think it was a wear item Also, it shot the SIG stuff fine the last time I took it to the range. Weird.

Well, I have been looking at the Beretta Pico for over a year. I'm a Beretta fan, and a tank of a .380 that was pocket friendly appeals to me a great deal as I simply cannot carry anything larger than a mouse gun with my job. I read about a $50 rebate on the Nano/Pico that was expiring on the 30th....on the 29th So I folded and purchased the little Pico from Academy Sports.

It felt good in my hands, stiff to work the slide (TIGHT fit. Sounds like a pair of scissors) and the trigger was heavy but smooth. The slide release was overly tiny and the magazine release was a little different to figure out. I knew that Beretta had revamped them the later part of last year, so I figured it must have been HORRIFIC before they upgraded them.

...then I got home and read that the upgraded guns would have a sticker on the box. Mine did not Sure enough, I'm eligible for "free" upgrade that will cost me shipping one way. ugggh! "Why can't Academy rotate their stock!?" Dejected, I pouted that my new gun was probably a choking dog that would have to go back and get fixed on my dime. Bummer.

It was going to be about a week before I could shoot the Pico, so I loaded the mags, left the slide locked back when I went to work, cycled it 300 or 400 times when I had a few minutes. I picked up 3 brands of cheaper .380 ammo that I knew it would choke on, and I set out for the range in a very tepid mood.

I set my target at 25 yards as it is a DNR range, and that is the minimum distance they offer. I was mostly checking for function anyway. I was going to clearing jams most of the morning, I was sure.

I inserted the stubby non-extended magazine and was ready to fight with that overly flush slide release. THWACK...it slammed shut with little effort. Hmmmm, OK. I line up my sights at the target and squeeze the trigger. BANG a hole kissing the left edge of the red center appears. First pull, not from a rest, and at 25 yards The rest of the magazine produces similar results. Same thing with the extended mag, except oddly enough I didn't prefer it to the flush magazine.

Whoa. I could keep this little gremlin on a pie plate at 25 yards. That is good enough for me (not a great marksman) when it comes to a gun I would probably use at 7 yards.

I put the gun down with the slide locked back and go to shake out my hand. Except, I don't really need to. It's not sore, nor rubbed, nor beat to a pulp. Honestly, it feels about as good as if I had just fired my 92fs. In other words, totally fine. No problem with felt recoil on the Pico. That claim by Beretta about the barrel only rising a few degrees to cut down on recoil must have some truth to it.

I proceed to fire 178 more rounds (all I had on hand) through the Pico including the 100gr SIG that my BG was eating when it developed diarrhea of the magazine. For the most part, a simply flawless range time.

The only issues I had were when I fired cheap steel ammo. It was accurate enough, but the first shot with it (about round 30 through the gun) stove piped. After that, I would find a hard primer here or there that would not ignite (maybe 3 out of 50). However, the second strike of the hammer set them off 100% of the time. Short of the one stove pipe, I experienced ZERO feed/ejection issues. That same ammo the BG would have similar issues with the hard primers and my first gen LCP wouldn't eat it at all. The steel stuff was bought to MAKE the gun hiccup. I never carry it in any pistol. Actually, I don't really like shooting it in my guns anyway. I just wanted to know that it COULD function if it HAD to.

I didn't have any premium self defense ammo on hand other than the steel stuff's crude jhp bullet. But i seriously doubt the Pico would have any issues digesting it if it had no issues with the weak fmj I was feeding it. Unlike the Nano which tends to like the 124 gr 9mm, the Pico, stout as the recoil spring is, had no problem with 94, 95, and 100 gr bullets operating at standard pressures. When it did ignite the steel cased stuff, it fired 100%.

I took the little monster back to my office to clean it after lunch. MAN, that steel case ammo is dirty. However INOX cleans up like a dream

Long story short:

• I really like the Pico.
• It was significantly less problematic than the internet led me to believe (serial number in the 6000s but not factory upgraded)
• It was less picky about ammo than my Nano
• It pocket carries better than my BG (but I do like the clip draw on my BG and wish that were an option on the Pico)
• It is a soft shooting gun for a micro .380. I mean, common, I just shot it 2 hours ago and I hammered out this book
• I probably WON'T be sending this gun back in to upgrade it unless something breaks on it. I don't mind the force needed to work the slide and the trigger pull is fine for my needs and wants (prefer a long smooth revolver type trigger for something that rides between my femoral artery and bits and pieces. Plus, the spring will wear in with use. Why beat up the gun with recoil if I have no problems operating it?)
• I really like the Pico (did I mention that?)

It is, by far, the softest shooting, most accurate pocket pistol in my collection, and the BG 380 is no slouch in either regard. I would most certainly put it in the ever elusive fun to shoot AND pocket carry category. I plan on running 3 more boxes of ammo through her the next rain day I get.

 

[stchman]

Respectfully disagree. A P238 is small enough to pocket carry and is still fun to shoot.

I would say that those two categories are "zero sum" -- as one increases, the other decreases. Still, it's possible to strike a balance.

The Sig Sauer P238 is a brick compared to an LCP. The P238 gives you nothing over an LCP. The LCP is almost 1/3 the price of the P238 as well.

 

[kokapelli]

The Sig Sauer P238 is a brick compared to an LCP. The P238 gives you nothing over an LCP. The LCP is almost 1/3 the price of the P238 as well.

the difference between the two is not limited to price and size.
The P238 out shoots the LCP in every respect.

 

[Gary A]

the difference between the two is not limited to price and size.
The P238 out shoots the LCP in every respect.

I have both guns. I really like both guns, each for its own virtues. I plan on keeping both guns. I heartily agree with kokapelli.

 

[Tallball]

"The two .380 ACP pistols I have really liked over the years are the Colt Government Series 80 Government..."


I have one too. They are terrific. The recoil is the least I have ever felt from a 380.

 

[Ironicaintit]

The P238 gives you nothing over an LCP. The LCP is almost 1/3 the price of the P238 as well.

The recoil of the 238 is quite a bit less than the LCP.
I still feel that mine could use some trigger work, but otherwise, I'd say it's money well spent.
I put mine inside the waistband in a leather Galco, and it practically disappears.
(But 99 times out of 100, I have my bhp)

 

[toivo]

The Sig Sauer P238 is a brick compared to an LCP.

Maybe so, but it's a brick that I can fit in my pocket.

The P238 gives you nothing over an LCP.

Except night sights, a better trigger, and much less felt recoil.

The LCP is almost 1/3 the price of the P238 as well.

I got my P238 for $500 NIB. Can you get a new LCP for $165?

 

[Gary A]

I got my P238 for $500 NIB. Can you get a new LCP for $165?

Most versions of the P238 run between a low of around $550 to a high around a bit north of $650 at least. LCPs have been running between a low of $199 and around $229 or a little more. So, 1/3 the cost is pretty accurate. I paid $210 for a gen 2 recently.

Neither $500 for a 238 or $165 for an LCP would be average prices.

 

[MIL-DOT]

I find the S&W Shield9 to be quite pocket-totable, and it's a very pleasant shooter,as well. And before I traded it, so was the Walther PPS.
A pistol doesn't have to be REALLY tiny to be comfortably carried in a pocket.

 

[Fiv3r]

The BG is a nice little shooter. But, you're right, the sights are all black. Really rugged, but I had to paint the front blade to pick it up at a glance. No big deal. I have a wife and a 5 year old daughter, so coming across nail polish is pretty easy

When my BG gets back from S&W, I'll probably rotate it to jogging duty. The Pico is probably will hold up to sweat a bit better, but the technaclip on the BG means it will carry better on my shorts. I was never one to feel the need to carry while exercising, but I jog at 4:30am. My neighborhood is nice, but there are some dark alleys I pass. Plus an agresive dog, I assume, decided that I was worth chasing for half a block the other morning. I dunno what it was, it was dark, however it sounded bigger than I liked. I'll give a dog a good hard kick to the face first, but I'm not getting mauled because someone didn't feel like locking up their pooch.

The magazine release is a little wonky on the Pico. I think the design is not designed for dropping the mag like a regular carry piece. It feels "right" to sort of reach under and pinch the release with your off hand on bother sides. This will drop the magazine right into your palm. Different, but I like the fact that it makes the magazine less likely to pop free while in my pocket.

I have had both my LCP and BG drop the magazine in my pocket by accident. For me, I would much rather have 7 rounds "for sure" if it means fiddling with the mag release than potentially have one shot then hearing a click due to the magazine coming loose.

 

[toivo]

Most versions of the P238 run between a low of around $550 to a high around a bit north of $650 at least. LCPs have been running between a low of $199 and around $229 or a little more. So, 1/3 the cost is pretty accurate. I paid $210 for a gen 2 recently.

Neither $500 for a 238 or $165 for an LCP would be average prices.

Fair enough, but when I bought my P238, it was easy enough to find the basic Nitron model for $500 on Gunbroker. At the time, LCPs were running between $250 and $300. There has been a steady slight increase in P238 prices since then, and a rather steep drop in the price of the basic LCP since they introduced the Custom model.

 

[Gary A]

Good points, toivo. I paid $550 for a basic Nitron and another $50 or so for some G10 grips. The price drop of the LCP is remarkable.

 

[stchman]

Maybe so, but it's a brick that I can fit in my pocket.


Except night sights, a better trigger, and much less felt recoil.


I got my P238 for $500 NIB. Can you get a new LCP for $165?

Night sights are NOT standard on the P238(that adds to the cost). It amazes me that people buy small pocket pistols for a nice trigger.

Where did you buy your P238 for $500? Most street prices are $580-$620 for the Nitron version(Sig's cheapest). For $500 I might consider it.

 

[toivo]

Night sights are NOT standard on the P238(that adds to the cost).

They weren't originally, but they are now -- mostly. SIG lists 22 models on their website, and they all come with night except for the laser-equipped one. I've seen some "sports" models that have a fiber-optic on the front and night sights on the rear. That makes no sense to me, but somebody must be buying them.

It amazes me that people buy small pocket pistols for a nice trigger.

I bought it for low felt recoil (I have arthritis in the base of my thumb, where it joins the wrist), and the trigger for me was just an added bonus. It's not all that light as single-action triggers go, but it is crisp and doesn't have a long pull like a DAO. Long-pull triggers on a small pistol always give me a problem. It might be because of the arthritis.

Where did you buy your P238 for $500? Most street prices are $580-$620 for the Nitron version (Sig's cheapest). For $500 I might consider it.

I don't remember exactly, but it was an online purchase. (I was lucky enough at the time to have a friendly FFL who did transfers for me for free.) Mine is the Nitron, and this was more a bit over two years ago.

For anybody who wants one, try using Gunwatcher.com to look for deals. There's one on there now for $525, but it has the fiber-optic front:

http://www.riflegear.com/p-2110-sig-sauer-p238-380acp-limited-edition.aspx