Funny experience at Big 5 today

[tallpaul]

And any of ya are surprised California would not require a physical address- how else are all the illegals gonna vote? :banghead:

 

[sprithitler]

How on eart can you put your place of residence on your drivers licence? I would in my present situation need a new drivers Licence every 3-6 months since i move around on second hand leases while trying to find a first hand lease of an apartment in a reputable part of town. If police or other authorities need to know where i live they check my "personnummer" (personal identification number, year of birth (2 digits), month of birth, date of birth, - serial number (three digits, the third of which tells your gender (odd for male, even for female)) and one control digit, created by an equation of the previous nine digits. The first two digits of the serial number was up until the early nineties decided by what hospital you were born at.
A sample Personnummer can look like this: 460816-0071. This would be a man, born on the eigth of august 1946 on a specific hospital in stockholm. When a person turns one hundred years old the dash separating birthnumber from serial number i exchanged for an asterisk in the official records.)
With this personnummer they can check everything about me in the government records, roughly the same as they can using your social security number.
This kind of Drivers licence if statespecific should be enough proof of residence.
Most retail stores have direct connection to the "folkbokföringsregistret" and can thus see where i live using this personnummer if they have legitimate business knowing such things about me.
Sweden have got an scarily effective bureaucracy.
Besides, doesnt most Americans have friends or relatives in other states? Shouldnt be too hard to get a friend or relative in a state you visit to buy the restricted equipment you need. Silly rules.

 

[EOD Guy]

The horror stories about Big 5 abound. This has happened on multiple occasions to me and continues to occur to a couple of of my friends who lack the good sense to leave California:

<Making firearm purchase--presents valid California drivers license>
"We can't take this--it has a PO Box listed."
"That's where my mail goes."
"We need proof of residency."
"That's what I just handed you. It's my drivers license."
"But we need something that shows you are a resident."
"Like I just told you..."
"How about a utility bill? Do you have a utility bill?"
"Sure, but they go to my PO Box as well."
"I don't know how we can complete this transaction."
"Get your manager."

....You get the picture.

They were correct and you were wrong. An identification document must list your legal residence address. Some states allow a post office box to be used a legal address, but California does not. If you are listing a po box on your ID for privacy or security purposes, it cannot be used as a sole ID for firearms purchases.

See the link for a BATF letter to FFLs on that very subject.

6-7-07 Open Letter to Federal Firearms Licensees

 

[deepfat]

I agree with olddog. There is way too much emphasis on bashing people that work at these big retailers who are not gun people. Most of the time, the managers say "Hey, you're working the gun counter today" when they usually work in jewelry or linens.

The only thing worse than anti's are gun snobs in my opinion. Give these people a break...a lot of them are working for minimum wage. If you want to improve the situation and meet your requirements as a gun owner and proponent of the 2A, educate people instead of criticizing.

 

[biscuitninja]

I think its funny. There are a few big 5's and Wally Worlds out there that have VERY knowledgable people behind the counter. I frequent both and have shot with both guys/girl there. They are completely awsome and i will surely be saddened when the days comes and they are no longer working there. Anyways good luck
-bix

 

[MarkDido]

If you ask them to. CA changed the law in the '80s because of the high incidence of crimes where someone (clerk in a store, etc) copies or memorizes the residence address of a (usually female) stranger's DL (e.g. while she returns a product in a store, or buys alcohol, etc...) and goes to their home to rob, rape, and/or murder them.

The state still has your residence address on file but the general public cannot access that information... only your mailing address.

My CA DL displayed my PO box. Frankly, I think having your residence address on your licenses is insane. That's one of the most idiotic things about TX.

The solution, if you live in a backwards state and are concerned about your personal safety, is to have two "residences". That works for rich people but leaves the lower income folks (which means most folks) as victims.

When I got stationed in Virginia in 1980, they used your SSN as your D/L

So now, the guy who stole my wallet has my name, complete address AND SSN.

I think they finally changed it.

 

[Nate C.]

EOD Guy wrote: "They were correct and you were wrong. An identification document must list your legal residence address. Some states allow a post office box to be used a legal address, but California does not. If you are listing a po box on your ID for privacy or security purposes, it cannot be used as a sole ID for firearms purchases.

See the link for a BATF letter to FFLs on that very subject.

6-7-07 Open Letter to Federal Firearms Licensees"


Actually, if you read the entire letter from it makes my point--it says that where PO Boxes are the listed address, it is acceptable. The issue in California was CalDOJ and the State AG (Lockyear, or similar).

As for CalDMV, I guess I could show you the old license with the PO Box on it. I'm not sure why I would sit here making it up.

 

[EOD Guy]

EOD Guy wrote: "They were correct and you were wrong. An identification document must list your legal residence address. Some states allow a post office box to be used a legal address, but California does not. If you are listing a po box on your ID for privacy or security purposes, it cannot be used as a sole ID for firearms purchases.

See the link for a BATF letter to FFLs on that very subject.

6-7-07 Open Letter to Federal Firearms Licensees"


Actually, if you read the entire letter from it makes my point--it says that where PO Boxes are the listed address, it is acceptable. The issue in California was CalDOJ and the State AG (Lockyear, or similar).

As for CalDMV, I guess I could show you the old license with the PO Box on it. I'm not sure why I would sit here making it up.

I didn't doubt that your license had a PO box address. What I was saying is that the PO Box was not your legal residence under California law. The BATF letter addressed the fact that some states do recognize a PO Box as a legal residence address. In those cases only, would a PO Box be acceptable on the identification document. Many states allow the use of a PO Box address on a drivers license, but do not recognize it as your legal residence.

 

[sniper5]

BruceRDucer:

Oh Crap!!! You caught me! Saw right through my disguise!!

I was sort of. . .definitely. . .maybe. . .planning. . .well. . . probably. . . SUMPFIN!



I guess!?!?!

 

[230RN]

tallpaul smarted off:

"And any of ya are surprised California would not require a physical address- how else are all the illegals gonna vote?"

:spit-take:

-------------
gun

(230RN is walking on the shoulder of the High Road here, so needed relevance for brownie points)

 

[AlaskaErik]

How much is your life worth if you wouldn't spend even $100/yr to protect it?

OK, that's a tad over the top, but it's just one more precaution one can take. Yes, the info is available w/ court order or subpoena (PMB) or making the correct request (PO Box) but that's a level of extra effort that will deter some of the crooks. It's sort of like alarm stickers and motion sensitive lights... they don't really stop anyone but they do deter some crime.

You don't need anything other than a computer to find out where I live, once you have my name. You simply go to the borough web site, then go to "My Property" and type in my name (or anyone else's) and you have my address and everything you want to know about my house and property. The web site even provides a map! No court order, no subpoena or any other hurdle. So not having my physical address on my license isn't going to stop anyone.

 

[Librarian]

California Penal Code requires proof of residency - PC 12071 (a) (8), I think, but that's a really long, convoluted section...

(C) Commencing January 1, 2003, no handgun may be delivered unless
the purchaser, transferee, or person being loaned the firearm
presents documentation indicating that he or she is a California
resident. Satisfactory documentation shall include a utility bill
from within the last three months, a residential lease, a property
deed, or military permanent duty station orders indicating assignment
within this state, or other evidence of residency as permitted by
the Department of Justice. The firearms dealer shall retain a
photocopy of the documentation as proof of compliance with this
requirement.

A California DL is not sufficient for residency, though it works for identity and age.