Future surplus rifles

[Vermont]

Can anyone think of any rifles currently in widespread military use in any country that could be imported to the US and sold as surplus rifles in the future?

Most rifles, such as the M16, would be excluded because they are capable of automatic fire. Perhaps there are rifles used by snipers that will be available at some point.

So, what semi-automatic or bolt action rifles in current military service would you most like to see sold in the US as surplus rifles?

 

[General Geoff]

None, unless the '34 NFA is repealed.

 

[Coronach]

There are lots I would want to see, probably not many that I will. "Once a MG, always a MG" kills most of them in use since 1960. We may see some precision rifles, but they'll be few and far between, and $$$$$.

Milsurps are a dying breed.

My main question is, what's next as far as available milsurps. M-Ns are in full bloom, so expect that supply to dwindle eventually. Mausers K98s are gone, except for russian captures. SKSes are just trickling in, K31s are nearing the bottom of the barrel. Lee-Enfields are done, except for the occasional stash that shows up when someone opens a warehouse in India and gets a surprise. Non-German military mausers have long since vanished from the primary supply scene, the ones we get now are from private collections, both here and overseas.

Are there any large "proven reserves" of eligible milsurps left?

Mike

 

[El Tejon]

Dying? Mayber hibernation is more apt description.

Yes there are millions upon millions of "milsurps" in warehouses in the Urals. I went to school with the refusniks sent to the labor battalions who worked in them. Imagine warehouses packed full of guns, like from a scene out of Lord of War.

Mauser 98Ks are gone??? Dude, the Germans made 11M of them! There are still millions around. Plenty of oily, gunky guns around, the problem is getting them into the country on a 6. It is in .gov's interest to cut us off and they are doing a fine job. To use a THR term, we need "vendors" *rolls on floor, has small stroke*

The Russians picked up everything during the GPW. Heck, the NKVD had units who did nothing but clean up battlefields.

The '96 VRA and our gold slammed the door on them. As well Cap'n Crunch got a bunch of them. Clinton was no dummy.

 

[Coronach]

You'll note I said "gone, except for RCs" when I mentioned K98s.

What do the Russians have there besides M-Ns and K98s? In any numbers, I mean? And how is it that some RC Mausers and M-Ns can come in (as they obviously do, I have several slots in my safe allocated to each), but the bazillion others cannot? Is each shipment a case-by-case (so to speak. heh!) type thing? One would think that if you import one crate, you could just as easily load up a container ship.

Mike

 

[kcmarine]

Rifles? Not so much. But there are plenty of shotguns and pistols out there. My guess is that by the time that the M9 is replaced, they will be so worn out that they will either be destroyed or given to the CMP. Another guess is that the old 870/500 shotguns that they used to have are now being given to police departments, who will in time put them up for surplus use or destruction.

 

[El Tejon]

The Soviets saved it all: Finnish M-Ns, Swedish M96s, German, Czech Mausers, firearms from Romania, Hungary, Italy, Bulgaria, Poland, the USA, UK, inter alia.

The container ships is why the Clinton Administration signed the VRA with Ruger's, Smith's, etc. silent approval. Can you imagine what the domestic manufacturers would think of continual $70 Mausers like in '96.

 

[Mr_Pale_Horse]

Starting about a decade ago, my base started clearing bunkers of unissued Garands to make room for newer stuff. Since the CMP was not in need of them, they scrubbed them whole in a citrus bath to remove the HAZMAT cosmoline stuff, then dissassembled them and landfilled the stocks and chopped and the metal and sent it to a salvage recycler.

 

[Coronach]

Given that the CMP has been in place for decades, has lots of warehouse space, and will actually make money selling the rifles, even if they hold them for 60 more years, I find that hard to believe.

Of course, this is the government we're talking about.

Please tell me this is something you heard, or that someone you knew "did", and not something you witnessed first-hand.

Mike

 

[rcmodel]

During Bill Kintons tour in the White House, there was an executive order put in place to destroy any / all surplus small arms & ammunition.
None could be sold to the CMP for civilian resale.

In 1993 and 1994, over 6,000 M1D rifles were deemed obsolete and destroyed under orders from the Secretary of the Army.

I am quite sure the NRA was raising heck about those rifles being destroyed.
They ran several stories about it during Billery's Presidency.

BTW: The CMP is no longer a government agency like it used to be in DCM days.
It is a private business now.


rcmodel

 

[cracked butt]

^^^
M14s were being destroyed as fast as they could be chopped in the 90s, now they seem to be needed. .Gov efficiency. Go figure. At least the Clintons didn't let the White House China and Silverware go to waste- they took it for themselves after destroying a lof of good equipment paid for by the taxpayers.

The container ships is why the Clinton Administration signed the VRA with Ruger's, Smith's, etc. silent approval

Pretty much why I shun a lot of domestic manufacturers, amongst other reasons.

 

[transformerguru]

I have heard the CMP was going to get M1A1's/M14's but that got postponed with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The military still needs rifles with a knock down punch.

 

[rcmodel]

The CPM will never get any M-14's, because they have select-fire capability. They fall under the machinegun laws, and are banned in the U.S.

The military never had any semi-auto M1A1's to get rid of in the first place.
It is a semi-auto rifle made by Springfield Armory Company for civilian sales.


rcmodel

 

[El Tejon]

trans, no, M14s would still be considered Title II. There was a movement by Neal Knox of the FC to amend ATF's "once a machine gun" ruling in the hope that the M14s would be sent to CMP.

However, Clinton sent several boatloads of M14s to the Baltic States to prevent any potential transfer to CMP.

rc, yes, my cousin witnessed millions upon millions of rounds be destroyed at Jefferson Proving Ground in Southern Indiana after Clinton's first few months in office. He says it was a horrific sight.

Cor, no, Horse is right on. Clinton was destroying whatever he could get his hands on--1903s, M1s, M14s, bolt action .22s, 1911s, etc. In 1995 at Knob Creek I remember piles of torch cut .38s sold as paper weights. They were the recent result of Clinton's policy.

 

[Eightball]

The CMP isn't going to get pistols anytime soon with the anti's in power. From what I've heard, it takes a distinctive act of Congress to allow US surplus to be sold to the CMP; unless non-NFA firearms (like said pistols) are included in a massive pork spending bill, there's no way in hell we're going to see them anytime soon--which means the "cruncher" will be fed, yet again.

 

[Dilbert]

CMP

The CMP website states that they will NOT get the M14. I did not know that they had walk in stores until I looked at their web-site. Has anybody been to it? What kind of prices did you see? The posted pictures show racks full of M1's, but I don't see any 1903A3's. Does anybody know if there are any rules about who can come in and buy guns in the store?

 

[rcmodel]

Anyone can walk in a CMP store.

You have to meet the same requirements as you would through a CMP mail order to buy a gun there.

I noticed that the first batch of M-1 Carbines they had last year went through those stores and they ran out before I got an order in.

Wish there was a CMP store a little closer to my area of the country!


rcmodel

 

[transformerguru]

I was told, be it truthful or not, that they (the CMP) were looking to acquire them, BUT I knew that they were going to be unable too. WOW didn't mean to stir the pot up, LOL.

 

[Ad Astra]

Castro will die one day, likely soon. Cuba going capitalist soon thereafter is a likely possibility.

The U.S. sent many many surplus small arms there to help Batista in the 1950's. I think it quite possible there are warehouses of Garands and Carbines in Cuba.

The old adage about commies never throwing anything away, combined with Fidel's invasion paranoia... wanting to arm every man, woman and child the day the Yanquis came.... He's still got them; one day we'll be buying unique cold war historical pieces from that island.

Cuban Garand for me!

Mike

 

[Rule556]

Dilbert,

Like rc said, anyone can walk into a CMP store, but you still have to meet their requirements to purchase guns. They have other things, like ammo, books, tools, clothes, etc. for sale, as well. If I remember correctly (it's been a few moths since I was in the North Store), you don't need to meet any special criteria in order to purchase other merchandise. The prices in the stores are the same as the prices listed online. There are two walk-in, retail stores--the North Store, located on the grounds of Camp Perry, a National Guard base and site of the National Matches outside of Port Clinton, Ohio and the South Store, which is located in Anniston, Alabama.

If you get a chance, visit one of the stores. They're very neat places, staffed by friendly and knowledgeable people.

 

[Jim Watson]

Tejon, Dilbert, you got those full automatic keyboards registered?

I have been to the CMP South Store a couple of times. What they have in the racks depends on what they have in the warehouse for sale. What the pictures show in the racks is what they had the day the picture was taken, I doubt they update that. They MAY have stuff for sale in the store that is not shown on the site for mailorder if quantities are small. I know they sold out of Winchester 52s the first day offered. Because I was there the next day and there were none to be had. There was no limit on purchases, so one of the reps said people were walking up to the rack and wrapping their arms around as many rifles as they could carry to the checkout counter.

Go to www.odcmp.com and look to see what they have now (M1 rifles and carbines, Kimber .22 target rifles are it for today.)
You can also look up purchase requirements.
You must show proof of citizenship - birth certificate or passport
Membership in a CMP affiliated organization. Lots of state and local clubs are connected.
Participation in a marksmanship activity. Many people plink through a match or two to get their scorecards and that is it.

 

[MechAg94]

As far as I know, they were out of 1903's and M1917's. I was told they wouldn't be getting more, but who knows.

At least they have more service grade Garands now.

 

[rangerruck]

rc model is right, clinton did wholesale destruction on weapons, including Gov agency stuff,1945 minty 38 supers, all destroyed, Thompsons, and other military goodies, such as the last of the grease guns used by Tankers in the 80's . Sent them all to the scrap heap. you have no idea What Billary will do when she gets in...

 

[Pancho]

Check out www.aimsurplus.com it's a walkin gunstore in Middletown Ohio. If you're ever in the area it is worth the stop.

 

[Pancho]

I just checked them out myself haven't been there in a couple of months. From the looks of their site the surplus must be drying up.