g23 case support
- Thread starter biogenic
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Motownfire
Member
Nothing to worry about with the 3rd Gens. Both my Glock 23 & Glock 27 are Gen 3's, they have supported chambers.
You can detect bad brass by running it through a Redding carbide GRX die. You can feel casehead seperation as the case passes through the ring. In such an instance the you will feel resistance, then a lack thereof, then resistance again as the casehead passess through in a jittery sort of way. This tells you the case has thinned out or is downright defective. I toss about of once fired range brass cuz tey feel weird. The rest are fine after that.
LiveLife
Member
IMO/IME, Gen3 40S&W Glock chamber support of case base is fairly comparable to many other brand factory barrels.biogenic said:
There is no way to be certain. Even the case that was shot several times with "hot" loads in less supported chambers will look like any other spent case if they were "push-through" resized with Redding G-Rx/Lee FCD and polished to look "nice" again. Heck, even wet tumbling with stainless steel media will make heavily tarnished work-hardened old brass look like new again!
Once the case wall is over-stretched, it will get thinner/weaker and no amount of "push-through" resizing of case will make the thinned case wall thicker again even though they will pass the case gauge/barrel drop testing.
I shoot a lot of 40S&W loads in Glocks and exercise even more care when I am sorting spent cases. I will visually inspect the cases for obvious damage and toss the case for recycling if I have any concerns. I use Lee carbide pistol dies and they will resize case base further down than some other brand resizing dies due to smaller radius on the carbide sizer ring.
While resizing, when I come across a case that requires significantly greater effort to resize and the bottom of the resizing die won't go all the way down to the shell holder/shell plate, I will consider the case was shot with hotter load and expanded more in looser chamber. I will barrel drop test the case in the tightest chamber I have (Lone Wolf) and if it won't freely drop in the chamber fully, I will attempt to resize the case and repeat the barrel drop test. If the resized case freely drops in the chamber, I will reuse the case but if it won't, I will toss it in the recycle bin.
Many reloaders may consider using the push-through resizing dies like Redding G-Rx or Lee FCD to fix these cases. IMHO, I consider these dies were meant for certain brand resizing dies with larger radius sizers that have difficulty resizing the case base shot in generous factory chambers but not meant to fix over-stretched/thinned case walls repeatedly as it would continue to weaken the case wall that may lead to case wall failure/rupture.
With mixed range brass with unknown reload history, especially for higher pressure 40S&W, I prefer not to use max loads. Instead, I use mid-to-high range load data for lower pressure target loads.
Some slower burn rate powders than W231/HP-38/Unique/Universal will lose accuracy and burn dirty at mid-range load data so I prefer to use faster burn rate powders that will still produce accuracy and burn relatively clean at mid-range load data.
YMMV
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LiveLife
Member
On a related issue, there's an active thread on the dangers of bullet setback - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=714981
Many posters of KaBoom claim their loads were not double-charged and KB occurred with below max load data powder charges. It is possible that these KBs occurred with decreased neck tension that significantly increased chamber pressures instead of double-charged cases.
Work hardening can make brass less malleable and cause spring back of case neck after resizing - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=250144
If the spring back of case neck occurs, neck tension will decrease and bullet setback can occur when the bullet bumps the feed ramp during feeding from magazine to significantly increase chamber pressures. As many posted on various threads, this increase in chamber pressure alone could be sufficient to cause case failure.
Wet tumbling with stainless steel rod media can make even old tarnished brass look like new again. So, it would be difficult to visually detect cases that may have work hardened.
Instead of pushing a loaded round against the bench, the QC test I use to check neck tension is measuring OAL before and after feeding/chambering the round from the magazine and manually releasing the slide. I think this test better duplicates the forces exerted on the loaded cartridge than pushing on the loaded round against the bench top.
LiveLife
Member
In other discussion threads regarding bulged 40S&W cases that failed to full-length resize, some posted that the use of push-through resizing dies would fix these overly bulged cases.
The newer .40's like yours have much better chamber support than older models. As for the .45's...well my Gen4 G21 and Gen4 30 both have fairly poor support but it's a lower pressure cartridge so it shouldn't matter as much.
As for brass, avoid what I would call seriously bulged cases. By that I don't mean a little bulge but bulging to the point of looking like a bubble...but I've never seen one of these in range brass ever. The Lee resizer takes out most any bulge and what it doesn't get the bulge buster kit will.
Avoid using old looking and beat up brass. The only two case-head separations I've had were using old tarnished looking brass (One 10mm, one .40)
As for brass, avoid what I would call seriously bulged cases. By that I don't mean a little bulge but bulging to the point of looking like a bubble...but I've never seen one of these in range brass ever. The Lee resizer takes out most any bulge and what it doesn't get the bulge buster kit will.
Avoid using old looking and beat up brass. The only two case-head separations I've had were using old tarnished looking brass (One 10mm, one .40)
It will fix the "failed to full length resize" problem, but that's not what the OP and I were addressing. What I was talking about is cases that otherwise appear normal, no guppy belly or anything of the sort, having incipient headspace seperation. They look normal until you run them through the GRX die, then you'll know why the .40 S&W has the reputation it does.
And just how would you choose which "normal" looking cases to run through the GRX die ?
The reputation 40S&W has is a good one. The crap FC brass and self-aggrandizing prejudiced comments by Dean Spier inflated one or two bad batches of brass into a legendary non-issue.
I understand mediocre brass, heavy bullets and fast powders in poly guns with mediocre at best chamber support isn't exactly brilliant, but don't make it sound like 40S&W is an accident waiting to happen.
In any caliber if you practice poor case evaluation or prep you eventually will have problems... stupid/lazy is as stupid/lazy does.
40 is not a catastrophe. Poor loading habits, inexperience and lack of due -diligence and common sense in concert are a catastrophe waiting to happen.
I have happily loaded thousands upon thousands of 40S&W's in various weights and bullet types with fast, medium and slow burn rate powders with enjoyable success. My reject brass container might fill up sooner than some reloaders but no accidents in any caliber - even 40S&W
OK, you I have some respect for.
I'm not implying the GRX die can't help.
You didn't indicate you ran all 40 cases through the GRX in your original comment.
Sounds like good discipline on your part, I like that, zero slop in the process, zero problem in the results.
"FC" headstamped 40SW brass is to be avoided. "Fed", Federal" or other variations are acceptable if all other considerations are a go.
Other brands of good brass would take a week of explaining. Bad brass in my opinion is "FC" "AMERC" ".SPEER." "PPU" and "NNY" which are MFS hungarian or Prvi Partizan Serbian "ACP" which is Armscorp from the Philippines. Remington UMC sucks too but not dangerously bad like some of the previously mentioned.
I have yet to see a piece of crimped 40SW brass, but I have seen brass that was originally 10mm length and headstamp trimmed back to 40SW length and sold as +P. I won't even attempt to address why using that would be a bad idea.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
All I know is, I have been reloading all brands of brass out of my new in 1995, un-supported chamber, fires out of battery, Glock 23 since I bought it brand new in 1995.
Factory 180 grain loads of the time did not bulge brass, and my reloads with lead & jacked bullets do not bulge brass.
If your Glock .40 bulges brass with your reloads?
Stop trying to load it to 10mm pressure levels and:
Fuggedaboutit!
rc
Factory 180 grain loads of the time did not bulge brass, and my reloads with lead & jacked bullets do not bulge brass.
If your Glock .40 bulges brass with your reloads?
Stop trying to load it to 10mm pressure levels and:
Fuggedaboutit!
rc
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