G26-PM9-P3AT (pls check the perspect 1st)

[jlh26oo]

Yeah I know.

Now play the game: apples, oranges, or pears?

And please play by the rules:
-You're me
-You tuck.
-No IWB.
-Pocket carry = primary
-And let's just get this out of the way: I concede that a J-frame is the real solution to pocket carry. Fourteen ounces of Dymondwood and Scanditonium*, 5x.357mag from two inches? Incredible!-Jim Rome. Really just indulging the autoloader crowd here, so for now ixnay on the amefray.
-Your job requires abolute concealment; your lifestyle demands comfort.
-You are of the school that, if I have a gun, it's going to be a gun I can shoot. I want to be able to put a few hundred rounds through it as often as I fancy, don't need anything "Meant to be carried alot, and shot a little" (i'm looking in your direction... you know who you augher).


26
ReliabilityXquality are all belong to GLOCK*. Also, the 26 ranks first in firepower among the three, and that's before considering it can feed off my G34's mags. Toughest of the three easily. GLOCK's trigger & manual-of-arms I am familiar with and love <sips Kool-Aid>. But considering this would be endured all the time as a pocket primary, it definitely pushes the limits of size. After surveying the Baby-G Pocketiers, it does seem my Dickies are big enough to hide this nine after all, given the right holster.

If comfortable in the pocket, the 26 would easily be my first choice.

PM9
The PM9 maximizes qualityXcompactness*. Great sights, nice fit and finish- yes yes, I know the real winner in this regard is Rohrbaugh; <shakes head> too awesmome. More of a max along it's own incomprehensible function, simultaneously existing within infinite uniquely distinct dimensions, transcending the very nature of being and time/space; if you will**.

Anyways, reliability might trump fit/finish, but from what they (the internet) say about Kahr's customer service, I trust it would eventually be made reliable or replaced, jic I didn't happen to pick a winner (so help me moon). Of course even that is time and money added to a price already pushing my budget. I guess I just hate the fact that the most expensive does not translate to a sure thing. I do shoot well with the PM40 though (have only dry fired/fondled PM9). I like the trigger, and there's enough "there" to grip well and shoot accurately. PM's stock sights are easily the best of the three.

If out-of-the-box reliable, I might compromise mag compatability, firepower, and toughness for splurging on the flat & slim PM.



P3AT
Trigger and shootability are completely unkown quantities to me. Good thing about the P3AT is, if I have to roll the dice, I'd rather risk $200+ than $500+, especially considering Kel-Tec's CS has a similiar reputation to that of Kahr's. Wouldn't mind just assuming I'll have to pay $40 in shipping before I even buy, so as not to be disappointed. I'll just consider it part of the price. Plus, one KNOWN quantity is it's higher on the compactnessXprice curve than the other two do on their respective functions, maybe the best overall value period. I just fear that if there exists a road to my second pocket pistol, it most likely starts behind the P3AT. Because even if it works, I'm not going to like pocketing the looks or spending time behind the trigger; not as much as the Kahr or GLOCK anyways. Eh, if I was buying for pretty & smooth, it'd be a two pound sp101 (oops) with wood grips, or a an MK9 Elite... with wood grips. Really, my official objection to the P3AT is that the .380 cartridge sits right on my southern border*.

If enough firepower for primary, I would settle for the P3AT.



Of course the idea is to find the smallest option you are certain will work, can shoot well, and with whose firepower you feel comfortable- all relative. The wisdom advising "dress to fit your choice of firearm, rather than choose a firearm to fit your clothes", is screaming GLOCK to me. But on paper, when you boil down the analysis of "small&comfy enough to make sure I always actually have it" X Firepower X Quality X Shootability x Sights (minus price & initial reliability), it looks like Kahr is the clear winner*. The kel-tec just somehow feels like the easy way out*. At only 2+ bills for the smallest possible carrry, the P3AT is almost so obvious it's gotta be a trick... but do you have FAITH?!** LOTS of people have these, and it is my prediction to win this poll. Similarly, GLOCK is kind of an easy way out. One-way postage only, because you know it'll work from round one*. So yeah, no worries in that regard, but will you actually carry it, always? Kahr is expensive in initial cost and possible send-back time/hassle/gun deprivation, but man is it alot of gun in such a tight package.

Guess one strategy would be just start from the top. Buy the G26 and see how it works in the pocket. Don't shoot it, and if it's too big I can sell it as-new and hopefully take less of a hit if I trade "up" for a Kahr*. But if I've got the swingers to keep it in my pocket, I'll just start shopping for holsters.


BTW *** is BOBO pocketing these days lol... ihispc, htrho.

BTW Kahr guys- is it right that even if a PM is working reliably, you're still going to see peening*; as in it's kind of expected/accepted? Or will Kahr generally do something about only that, as well?

BTW Kel-Tec guys- does the P3AT have a drop safety? JHP or FMJ (have heard the latter*) & who makes the most potent round @ what @velocity (or energy rating etc, if anyone knows (have heard GoldeN Sabre and Santa Something*). You guys shoot those things alot, or pretty much just for break-in, then rarely thereafter?

BTW this guy submits that GLOCK stock sights > those of Kahr lol (and I thought I was bad) in this interesting comparison of p32/p9/g26: http://www.a-human-right.com/p9vsg26.html

Thanks all.











*IMESMFHOODK AAYMFMMVB; MGTBBFTMFSSACC... CTFO; IAFJCTFD

**SBTWWTFAITO?

 

[longeyes]

The G26 is a classic, one of the best "little" guns on the market. It will fit in your pocket--if by pocket you mean a smallish fannypack or, maybe, sturdy cargopants. It could qualify as the only gun you need to own--can you say that about the other two?

 

[pocketgun]

IMO, the G26 is just too thick for pocket carry, even in cargo pants/shorts. Getting it in is one thing, getting it out quickly and consistently is the tough part, especially if you add the extra mass of a pocket holster.

I like the trigger on the P-3AT better than the PM9, and yes, it is completely drop safe.

Buy the P-3AT and the PM9, and carry the Kahr when it is reasonable to do so for the extra power. Take the P-3AT when the PM9 is just too big. The P-3AT isn't a range pistol, and I suspect you may feel the same way about the PM9 after a while. If you can wait for a while, consider the Kel-Tec PF-9 which is due to be released this month and is similar to the PM9. Total costs of both Kel-Tecs will be less than the Kahr or Glock. I have handled a couple at SHOT and would take it over the PM9 if they were both the same price. I have dry-fired (but never shot) both.

BTW, if I become you the first thing I am going to stop doing is tucking in your shirt. I hated tucking in shirts long before I worried about how it concerned pistols - it just looks lame, unless you are wearing a suit or something similar.

edited to add: I carry Speer Gold Dots in mine, but will switch to the Golden Saber when I get a chance to test it - that or the CorBon DPX. I put about 50 rounds/session through my P-3AT, about once per week. My hands don't like lots of shooting with the 7.3 ounce pistol, YMMV. Mine has over 1000 rounds through it now.

 

[jlh26oo]

lol@shirt tucking.

Can't wait on the PF9, will be getting one of these three tomorrow. Thanks on the .380 ammo tips.

@longeyes- yeah that's the testament to the 26, it could be someone's only gun (and no I can't say that about the others). I just don't know how much of a factor that is, as I will never sell what little I now own, but your point does generalize to the extent that I will indeed only have one gun on me most of the time. I'd rather it be the "classic" if possible. Though fannypacks nna lol.

 

[Dollar An Hour]

Pocket means P3AT. My P32 has been 100%.

Otherwise I'd say G26.

You'll buy a 26 eventually anyway.

 

[Lonestar.45]

I got the 3AT first, then the PM9. The 3AT gets carried the most by far. The PM9 goes along when I go IWB and untucked, or sometimes in the SmartCarry.

I keep kicking around the idea of a G26, but just can't seem to do it. It won't conceal nearly as easily as the other two, and the other two are working reliably for me so that's not a concern. So the question becomes, is the extra few rounds capacity worth the tradeoff in less concealability? For me, the answer is no because I'd probably end up never carrying the G26.

If I get a Glock it'll be a G19 and become a range/truck/briefcase/shtf gun.

 

[PaulBk]

P3AT

My G26 would be the last pistol I would *ever* give up, but it is not a pocket pistol by your criteria. If all you wear are coveralls or very loose and baggy cargo pants then the G26 *might* work for you. Still it weighs a lot more than the KT. And it is hardly a pistol that lends itself to 'absolute concealment'.

Go with either the P3AT or a P32

-PB

 

[gudel]

ReliabilityXquality are all belong to GLOCK

if this is a carry gun, you want this part: ReliabilityXquality specially the reliability part. that's just me.

 

[pocketgun]

I love my Glocks, but reliability and quality mean very little in a gunfight if you don't have it with you. Glocks are belt carry guns.

 

[Bobo]

jlh26oo,

BTW *** is BOBO pocketing these days lol...

It's the P-3AT (it won out out over all the guns on the chart)!

Have been carrying it 24/7 since I bought it eight months ago. Have put 1089 rounds though it since then. Did some mods to make it fit me better - deepened the grip, painted the sights, added Bersa magazine bases, and added an ArmaLaser.

I have absolutely no regrets. Don't want, don't need any other gun.

Bobo

 

[Sistema1927]

I have a G26 and a P32, but when I wanted to seriously pocket carry a semi (I was carrying a 642), I bought a PM9. No peening here, probably 850 rounds through it. Absolulutely reliable after the first 200.

The G25 is way too large for pocket carry, the P32 is a tad too small. The PM9 is just right. (Apologies to Goldilocks.)

 

[loki.fish]

This is a tough one. But I chose the PM-9

Glock 26: I had one, sold it and bought a PM-9. It was too big to pocket carry, IWB carry is uncomfortable and to me, that left either shoulder holster under a baggy button up shirt or jacket or on the hip in a paddle holster. If I had to do either of those, I'd get something bigger and more comfortable to my hands.

Kahr PM-9: I have this gun on me pretty much all the time. Can't carry at work, company policy, so it's not on me then. I haven't fired it much, so I'm not sure about the peening. I've yet to reach the 200 round break in, yes very sad on my part, and am hopin when I do that the only problem I've had so far will disappear. That problem is, the last round in the mag won't chamber, it just stays in the mag. Both mags that came with the gun have the same problem.

Kel-Tec P3AT: My buddy has one. I've shot it and I don't like the trigger at all. If it was like the PM-9, I'd probably have the Kel-Tec as my always on me gun.

 

[pocketgun]

Kahr PM-9: I have this gun on me pretty much all the time. Can't carry at work, company policy, so it's not on me then.

Huh? Sounds to me like half your waking week it sits in a safe. This is exactly what you buy a true pocket pistol to avoid.

 

[jlh26oo]

after further review

I've decided to throw price out the window (except partial consideration for the p3at of course). Glock and Kahr are close enough not to make price figure in at all.

...the other two are working reliably for me so that's not a concern. So the question becomes, is the extra few rounds capacity worth the tradeoff in less concealability?

Yeah, that's pretty much the million dollar question right there. Funny thing is, if it comes down to the pm9 and g26, I think the fact that .380 was ever even in consideration as primary firepower renders the issue of 7 vs 11 x 9mm almost irrelevant; similarlywith G34 mag compatability. Because as much as I LOVE the concept of being able to stick those big mags in there, that, along with capacity, really just serves firepower (if indirectly).

One thing I want to ask those who both voted .380 for my primary carry and who also have a p3at- you guys carry something else too right? Like it's strictly your "run to the store in shorts/no time to belt up/nuthuggers compatible" option right, if not just BUG? Bobo? You said that's what you carry exclusively? Your vote carries alot of weight to me, ctbacym.

I guess if I did go for the g26 first (considering the group buy $450 + $10 florida glock order going on), if I ever did have the occasion to iwb, it would be better than doing so with a prac/tac.


So upon further review (kahr is not ruled out completely)

g26-pm9
mags-n/a
Heavy-Lite
Thick-Thin
Tough-Smooth
Works-Might
Familiar trigger-Nice trigger
Sights I replace-Nice Sights



Also, I probably know more what to expect from the pm9 by having shot it's brother in the pm40, than I do about the g26 from shooting only distant cousins in 19,22,34 etc (never shot a 26, 27 or 33). It WOULD be a burn if the 26 somehow turned out to be less shootable than the kahr, and I sacrificed size and weight because of it.

Great input. Solid points to consider from all.


Thanks.

 

[pocketgun]

One thing I want to ask those who both voted .380 for my primary carry and who also have a p3at- you guys carry something else too right? Like it's strictly your "run to the store in shorts/no time to belt up/nuthuggers compatible" option right, if not just BUG?

I live in the desert and it is shorts/t-shirt weather here about 10 months/year. One of my goals is to always have something, and throwing my P-3AT in its holster and then in my pocket is a daily routine. I sometimes carry a Kel-Tec P-40 loaded with Double Tap 155gr Gold Dots, usually when I walk late at night. This pistol is smaller than the G26 but still too big to pocket carry - I go IWB with a spare mag just in case. My cold weather or bad neighborhood carry is a Glock 29 loaded with Double Tap 165gr Gold Dots. But for all the money I spent on the 10mm (pistol, Mepros, springs, smooth trigger, ammo to test it, etc.), it gets carried only once in a while. The darn $230 P-3AT is with me probably 90% of the time I leave the house when it is warm out (it was 100 degrees here today, 101 predicted for tomorrow). I don't carry it as a BUG, though many do.

BTW, why not the PM40 or Glock 27? I have shot both the G27 and G26 and either one will be far and away the most enjoyable at the range of the pistols you are considering, IMO.

 

[pocketgun]

Pic of my P-3AT/holster on THIS thread.

 

[jlh26oo]

That is indeed a nice holster pg. Will consider it when at stage 2.

I have considered going .40sw. If I went GLOCK though, I feel like mag compatability cannot be denied, and I am locked into a 26. Kahr would open up that option (as ammo compatability is not really a huge factor to me), but 5,6x.40sw vs 6,7x9mm is a toss-up (for me)*. You totally predicted that line of thought though. I was going right down that road lol.

Wow you don't pack your 29 much huh? Now that IS some firepower.

 

[pocketgun]

I see your point on the Glock mag thing; I also own a G22 and if I were to buy the subcompact it would be nice to have the mags interchange. The PM40 offers an amazing amount of power for the size/weight, and still will allow pocket carry much of the time. You can still -cringe- tuck in your shirt that way too.

By the time I bought the G29 the cold weather was gone, and I still had to get it on my CCW permit. When it gets colder out and I am wearing heavier clothes, it will get carried a bit more.

If I owned a PM9 (or KT PF-9) it would cut into the carry time my P-3AT gets to some extent, since it offers a nice step up in power but can still fit a pocket. It would probably cut into the P-40 carry time too.

Whatever you get, shop around and find a good quality holster for it - it makes all the difference, and most of the time, generic holsters don't work well.

 

[ugaarguy]

jlh,

I voted for the Kel-Tec. Now I might be a little biased ince I own one, but the little booger has grown on me. It's size truly makes it a take it anywhere gun. I have go any bigger than the P3AT I ain't pocket carryin, and at that point, since I'm strappin on a belt and traditional gunleather, it's 1911, Hi-Power, or S&W M66 time. For deep concealment, comfort, and "always on me" the P3AT can't be beat. I've posted this before, but I'm a big fan of the Comp-Tac "Centerline" neck holster. With a polo shirt, dress shirt, or even a medium to dark t-shirt the P3AT & comp-tac absolutely dissapear - great for jogging/walking in gym shorts and a t-shirt. I also like the DeSantis "Nemesis" pocket holster. It works well, conceals well, is very comfortable, and, at around $10-$15, is a bargain for a good holster.

 

[Autolycus]

Instead of the Glock 26 I would go with a P2000sk. I think it is a much better gun and is just a tad bigger than the Glock 26. But I put my vote in for the Glock 26.

 

[glove]

P3AT

+1 P3AT
Dave Z

 

[MCgunner]

If I'm spending your money, I'll take the Kahr. If I'm spending my money, I'll take a P11 Kel Tec.

 

[orionengnr]

G-26 - PM9 - P3AT

If I read your thread correctly, you are defining "capacity" and "firepower" as being two different things, while most people use those terms interchangeably.

Capacity and caliber are the correct terms.
Other variables are size, weight, cost (belatedly deemed irrelevant). Reliability is a variable, although apparently not a determinant here.

Fair enough.

G-26 is not pocket carry, except for very large individuals with very large pockets. It is too wide, too heavy, too blocky for most pockets. A few can pull it off (and I'm certain they will post here), but most cannot.

PM9...yes, I am biased, my PM9 is what put my j-frames in the safe and up for sale. I read enough negative posts about Kahr reliablity to delay my purchase, but in the end I took the plunge. At 14.8 oz it is just barely heavier than my 340 AirLite 357 Mag, and the length/height are nearly identical. The Kahr is skinnier, albeit "blockier". The biggest differences are:
--I can put 50 (or 150) rounds through the PM9 at a sitting. The 340 is good for one cylinder of 357s or maybe 20 38+ps. This is not conducive to practice or proficiency.
--The accuracy of the PM9 is unreal. I am not a competitor or particularly gifted, but I can shoot that PM9 like nobody's business. Recoil, even with 127+p+, is negligable.
(BTW, mine has been 100% reliable.)

P3AT--yeah, I've though of picking one up, and I may yet, but... why? Sure, it will be easier to carry than the PM9, but the difference between my confidence in the 380 vice 9mm+p+...no contest.

YMMV.

 

[jlh26oo]

put em all in my pocket today... (not at the same time)

...for about an hour lol. Didn't even get run out of the store. He just eventually left me alone with them.

G-26 is not pocket carry

<sticks fingers in ears and shakes head> "la-la-la-la-la-la"

No denying the pm9 is the logical choice here. Although the GLOCK does fit and conceal in the pocket, my eyes were bigger than my britches to some extent (comfort/pants wear&tear). I just really wanted it to be the 26.

BTW what I'm calling firepower I don't think is an official term, just kind of in my head the sum advantage of caliber, cartridge, ammo options, barrel length (apparently those 127gr get up to 1246fps from 3.46" g26; have yet to find a similar chart* on the Kahr. Though if I knew the Kahr would work with my ammo choice, I wouldn't even worry about it (why I want to see stats, who knows what ammo I'll have to use to appease it). I'm confident the glock wouldn't give a damn, eats anything (lol the Kahr is like a cat; GLOCKs are DOGS I'm tripping).

I said cost was out the window; initial reliability too (since Kahr CS will eventually get it running), but together (+time and money getting something working that I paid more for initially), it would be kind of a burn.

And as surprised as I was how "not there" the PM9 is in my pocket (unloaded at least), I was equally surprised with the fit/finish of the pm9 compared to even GLOCK (maybe it was a bad example, but plastic looked rougher around the edges, slide did not quite glide etc- don't remember the pm40 I shot being that way, but maybe I wasn't looking at it through buyers eyes then). Anywasy, f&f obviously LOWEST priority; it just adds to the burn of it costing more.

But burns aside, yeah, I am ultimately ignoring price and just making it a "choose one". Have to find some chrono data on the pm's; but that's where I'm leaning. I'll post in ballistics specific forums maybe, see if anyone has any thoughts this analogy: 1246fps:3.46"::??:3.0"

You'll buy a 26 eventually anyway.

Playing with it today didn't help matters either. But you better not be right <shakes fist>.


*http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Glock26Velocities.htm

 

[Jiml3]

With regard to the Kahr PM9 and the slide not gliding as expected, The Kahr line
needs to be lubricated more than most guns. I use to use an oil but have switched to Tetra grease and found it last's longer with very satisfactory results. You mentioned the CS9 model. It's the economy model, not quite up to the other models, especially in the groves of the barrels, the sights and only 1 mag and some cosmetics.
My PM9 has been 100% reliable since day one and surprisingly very accurate for such a lightweight.