G36 in use already?
- Thread starter Spark
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Yeah, we all know what heavy Infantry combat they deal with....
Jeff
Jeff
Tamara
Senior Member
Spark,
I believe they are used by the Two Mules, KS SWAT team, also.
In all seriousness, the few folks I've spoken to who have had extensive field experience with them, either through being issued with them or cross-trained on them, seem to have opinions divided roughly 50-50 on the guns. Kind of like the... you know... the M-16...
The biggest cheerleading section for this rifle seems to consist of those who've never touched one outside of a game of Rainbow Six (or those who had a buddy who works for an SOT who let them rattle off a mag or two) yet are absolutely hyp-no-tized by anything made of black plastic that says "Aitch und Kay" on it.
I haven't seen this level of Iwannacoolgunvirus since the first commercial Galils hit our shores.
I believe they are used by the Two Mules, KS SWAT team, also.
In all seriousness, the few folks I've spoken to who have had extensive field experience with them, either through being issued with them or cross-trained on them, seem to have opinions divided roughly 50-50 on the guns. Kind of like the... you know... the M-16...
The biggest cheerleading section for this rifle seems to consist of those who've never touched one outside of a game of Rainbow Six (or those who had a buddy who works for an SOT who let them rattle off a mag or two) yet are absolutely hyp-no-tized by anything made of black plastic that says "Aitch und Kay" on it.
I haven't seen this level of Iwannacoolgunvirus since the first commercial Galils hit our shores.
SodaPop
member
LOL!
I don't think anyone else is going to post anything now.
Gary G23
Member
They were in use guarding the gate of a Nato base that I was at in central Europe last month.
MLC
Member.
There was a nasty video of G36's in use in the Balkans circulating the net several years ago. The G36 and it's smaller higher speed variants were also in use in Afghanistan. It is the issued rifle for the German Army so looking at places like miltary photos.net you will see the G36 in an environment where it is being tested and proven as a viable combat weapon.
Its looks and engineering would draw attention from the I wanna cool gun patients whether it had an HK or SIG or CETME or FN, the use of proven designs and new ideas in a combat weapon is rather exciting. Moreso to me than another doodad to hang on an aging design.
Its looks and engineering would draw attention from the I wanna cool gun patients whether it had an HK or SIG or CETME or FN, the use of proven designs and new ideas in a combat weapon is rather exciting. Moreso to me than another doodad to hang on an aging design.
Spark,
I know several people in the LE community that sincerely wish their agency had never bought them. I only know a couple guys that regularly use them who like them. My agency bought Colts.
It seems that the only agencies who are buying them are the ones that don't conduct extensive testing. I can't think of any agency that actually tested them, that bought them. I have heard all kinds of complaints about the quality of the plastic used in the construction. No one I know likes the sight.
Jeff
I know several people in the LE community that sincerely wish their agency had never bought them. I only know a couple guys that regularly use them who like them. My agency bought Colts.
It seems that the only agencies who are buying them are the ones that don't conduct extensive testing. I can't think of any agency that actually tested them, that bought them. I have heard all kinds of complaints about the quality of the plastic used in the construction. No one I know likes the sight.
Jeff
Tamara
Senior Member
Spark,
I'll freely admit that my G36 experience amounts to only extensive handling and supervised field-stripping of a half-dozen examples, but no firing (unless you count their neutered SL8 cousin).
I guess I'll have to defer to those with extensive field experience with the beast.
Which ones did you like the best: the standard model, the K or the Commando?
(There're obviously two camps here:
Camp A: "Wow! A new, swoopy, modular rifle from HK!"
Camp B: "Wow. Another lightweight gas-operated .223 carbine. Swell."
Guess which one I fall in. )
I'll freely admit that my G36 experience amounts to only extensive handling and supervised field-stripping of a half-dozen examples, but no firing (unless you count their neutered SL8 cousin).
I guess I'll have to defer to those with extensive field experience with the beast.
Which ones did you like the best: the standard model, the K or the Commando?
(There're obviously two camps here:
Camp A: "Wow! A new, swoopy, modular rifle from HK!"
Camp B: "Wow. Another lightweight gas-operated .223 carbine. Swell."
Guess which one I fall in.
)Tamara
Senior Member
MLC,
'Cause we all know how important that is in a combat rifle.
What engineering features do you refer to, specifically?
Again, what new ideas, specifically, are you referring to?
'Cause we all know how important that is in a combat rifle.
What engineering features do you refer to, specifically?
Again, what new ideas, specifically, are you referring to?
The State Patrol SWAT team or something here in GA uses a G36 variant. Buddy of mine is a photographer for a small town paper and got to photograph them on the range and got to fire a couple mags. (lucky SOB...) Seems kinda silly for them to shell out for these things though... I mean jeez, semiauto ARs or MP5s aren't enough for the GA State Patrol? Here's a shot:
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Marko Kloos
Moderator Emeritus
On a side note:
Am I the only one who gets a weird feeling seeing the King's Men on the Capitol steps, wielding hardware that is an absolute no-no for the peasantry not only in D.C., but nationwide?
I think the Founding Fathers would puke.
Am I the only one who gets a weird feeling seeing the King's Men on the Capitol steps, wielding hardware that is an absolute no-no for the peasantry not only in D.C., but nationwide?
I think the Founding Fathers would puke.
MAKowner,
Living in GA, myself, it irritates me to see them spend our tax money on those things. WHAT is the AR-15 not doing for them that these kraut guns WILL do for them? Looks like management wanting to LOOK modern for their peers...
Marko,
Couldn't agree more. Sickening.
Steve
Living in GA, myself, it irritates me to see them spend our tax money on those things. WHAT is the AR-15 not doing for them that these kraut guns WILL do for them? Looks like management wanting to LOOK modern for their peers...
Marko,
Couldn't agree more. Sickening.
Steve
My personal experience with them is only messing with them at SHOT. My customers who've used them don't have any problems AFAIK - 5 or 6 SWAT teams who have been issued the various models. Every time I've asked them about 'em, they've raved. Of course, I have to discount anything the Broward County SWAT team says since we all saw how they handled election 2000.
Personally, as a lefty, I like it a hell of a lot better than the AR. Much friendlier for us right brain folks. My main complaint is the stock - it just doesn't feel sturdy enough for me, and I wouldn't want to use it for a buttstroke. Mags are decent - mag release is great. Controls are good. Sights could use work, but are modular. Rifle points well. Charging handle is good. Ergos are good. All around, I'll take 3 G36C's if any fall off the back of a truck, along with any FNP90's that are laying about.
Personally, as a lefty, I like it a hell of a lot better than the AR. Much friendlier for us right brain folks. My main complaint is the stock - it just doesn't feel sturdy enough for me, and I wouldn't want to use it for a buttstroke. Mags are decent - mag release is great. Controls are good. Sights could use work, but are modular. Rifle points well. Charging handle is good. Ergos are good. All around, I'll take 3 G36C's if any fall off the back of a truck, along with any FNP90's that are laying about.
B27
Member
The reason these rifles will be seen showing up in the hands of LE in Georgia is simple.
HK's new plant to build them, or the XM8 at least, is being located right here in Georgia.
First Glock (distribution at least) and now HK manufacturing.
We are fast becoming the home of teutonic black plastic guns.
Sprechen ze hairy dawgs, yall?
HK's new plant to build them, or the XM8 at least, is being located right here in Georgia.
First Glock (distribution at least) and now HK manufacturing.
We are fast becoming the home of teutonic black plastic guns.
Sprechen ze hairy dawgs, yall?
The below are my opinions and my opinions alone. My opinion is worth exactly what you are paying for it.
I was 'un'-impressed with either the G36 or the G36k that I have had some trigger time with.
The Germans STILL haven't got the 'ergonomics' down yet. You'd think that after the M16 has been out for 30 years now that they would have 'gotten a clue'. But the G36's selector is STILL in the 'wrong place' - i.e. it can't be reached while the rifle/carbine is in the shoulder - at least by people that have normal sized hands/fingers. The M16 series selector is the best 'placed' in all the world.
The fore-end on the regular and 'k' model got VERY hot after just a two magazines fired in 2-3 round bursts with a second or two between bursts - so it was not like I ran a half dozen Beta-C mags through them non stop. Taking off the handguard revealed there is no 'heat shield' in the handguards. So all there is between a VERY hot barrel and one's hand is plactic. I have heard that HK has since then added heat shields - but I do not 'know' that to be fact. But why didn't they catch this WAY before these things were mass produced? SURELY they shot these things with live rounds during trials. Where the testers issued thick nomex gloves and only fired in an arctic environment? I am still puzzled over that, as the handguard got too hot WAY too soon.
I also did not like the 'charging handle' - to me it was 'slick' - like the plastic the rest of the rifle is made from. On more than a couple of occasions, when doing fast mulfunction drills my hand slipped off the charging handle before the rifle was fully charged, so I had to do it again - which can cost precious seconds.
The magazines did not inspire confidence. I have nothing against them per se - but they look and feel as if they were made by Ramline - and they were never the pinicle of reliability. However - I never experienced any problems with mags.
Flapper mag release worked fine.
The sights were somewhat confusing - but are workable.
The G36 was reliable, the G36'k' was not (numerous FTE's and FTF's).
Recoil was more mild than the M4 series. That coupled with the fact that the cyclic rate is slower made it a breeze to shoot on FA.
The buttstock should be adjustable ala the M4 instead either folded (no-stock) or extended (too long of stock). The locking mechanism - being plastic - should be watched as I do not feel it will hold up well during extended 'hard' use.
IMHO - I think HK missed the boat with this one. Sure, it is a more 'clean' running system than the M4 - but the execution of design/poor design and the poor ergonomics take a back seat to the AR series, especially the M4.
Of course - YMMV.
cheers
tire iron
I was 'un'-impressed with either the G36 or the G36k that I have had some trigger time with.
The Germans STILL haven't got the 'ergonomics' down yet. You'd think that after the M16 has been out for 30 years now that they would have 'gotten a clue'. But the G36's selector is STILL in the 'wrong place' - i.e. it can't be reached while the rifle/carbine is in the shoulder - at least by people that have normal sized hands/fingers. The M16 series selector is the best 'placed' in all the world.
The fore-end on the regular and 'k' model got VERY hot after just a two magazines fired in 2-3 round bursts with a second or two between bursts - so it was not like I ran a half dozen Beta-C mags through them non stop. Taking off the handguard revealed there is no 'heat shield' in the handguards. So all there is between a VERY hot barrel and one's hand is plactic. I have heard that HK has since then added heat shields - but I do not 'know' that to be fact. But why didn't they catch this WAY before these things were mass produced? SURELY they shot these things with live rounds during trials. Where the testers issued thick nomex gloves and only fired in an arctic environment? I am still puzzled over that, as the handguard got too hot WAY too soon.
I also did not like the 'charging handle' - to me it was 'slick' - like the plastic the rest of the rifle is made from. On more than a couple of occasions, when doing fast mulfunction drills my hand slipped off the charging handle before the rifle was fully charged, so I had to do it again - which can cost precious seconds.
The magazines did not inspire confidence. I have nothing against them per se - but they look and feel as if they were made by Ramline - and they were never the pinicle of reliability. However - I never experienced any problems with mags.
Flapper mag release worked fine.
The sights were somewhat confusing - but are workable.
The G36 was reliable, the G36'k' was not (numerous FTE's and FTF's).
Recoil was more mild than the M4 series. That coupled with the fact that the cyclic rate is slower made it a breeze to shoot on FA.
The buttstock should be adjustable ala the M4 instead either folded (no-stock) or extended (too long of stock). The locking mechanism - being plastic - should be watched as I do not feel it will hold up well during extended 'hard' use.
IMHO - I think HK missed the boat with this one. Sure, it is a more 'clean' running system than the M4 - but the execution of design/poor design and the poor ergonomics take a back seat to the AR series, especially the M4.
Of course - YMMV.
cheers
tire iron
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I read somewhere that there have been problems with the locking mechanism of the folding stock, as it is made of polymer, too. Constant use make sit loose and wobbly all too soon.
I agree with Tire iron, the collapsing stock idea is better suited to use by folks wearing body armor and such.
"But it's an H&K"
It IS neat looking, though.
You'd think local PD's would just get surplused M-16's and then add collapsing stocks and short barrels if that's what they want.
I agree with Tire iron, the collapsing stock idea is better suited to use by folks wearing body armor and such.
"But it's an H&K"
It IS neat looking, though.
You'd think local PD's would just get surplused M-16's and then add collapsing stocks and short barrels if that's what they want.
Bart Noir
Member
Thanks, Tire Iron
It's nice to hear from those who have held, loaded, fired the arm under discussion. Lord knows, I will never have that chance. Anyway, it is a little wierd to read those of your comments which were negative. They sound like they are in the same category as the problems the British had with the first version of their L85 bullpup rifles, although the details are different. I mean, weak and not thoroughly soldier-proof construction. Now who was hired to rework the British rifles? You guessed it, it was H&K. Maybe Fixit Team A didn't have a chance to report back to Design Team B.
Bart Noir
It's nice to hear from those who have held, loaded, fired the arm under discussion. Lord knows, I will never have that chance. Anyway, it is a little wierd to read those of your comments which were negative. They sound like they are in the same category as the problems the British had with the first version of their L85 bullpup rifles, although the details are different. I mean, weak and not thoroughly soldier-proof construction. Now who was hired to rework the British rifles? You guessed it, it was H&K. Maybe Fixit Team A didn't have a chance to report back to Design Team B.
Bart Noir
Schuey2002
Member
The forearm on that "K" (in the pic above) is the old non-heat shield model. Here's the new and improved forearm that has an aluminum heat shield (which wraps around 3 sides of the barrel.)
I shot a friend in a local PD an email (they have 2 G36K's & 2 G36C's in there inventory) and asked him about the "charging handle". He said that Part #205-395 'Cocking handle', is made of metal, not plastic..
Schuey2002,
Thanks for the clarification regarding the 'heat shields'. Makes one wonder why they didn't catch that WAY earlier in the design / testing phase. I mean, heat sheilds have only been around for over forty years.
Regarding the charging handle - it must be made from a cheap a$$ casting then, cause it had the same 'slick' feel - and looked just like the plastic the rest of the rifle is made of.
Again - thanks for the update!
cheers
tire iron
Thanks for the clarification regarding the 'heat shields'. Makes one wonder why they didn't catch that WAY earlier in the design / testing phase. I mean, heat sheilds have only been around for over forty years.
Regarding the charging handle - it must be made from a cheap a$$ casting then, cause it had the same 'slick' feel - and looked just like the plastic the rest of the rifle is made of.
Again - thanks for the update!
cheers
tire iron
Tamara
Senior Member
Schuey2k2,
Might want to double check w/your PD connection, as all the ones I've handled have sported the same gimpy charging handles as the SL8 (apparently a plastic sheath over a cast-metal core.) I'd no more want to extract a stuck case by kicking the bolt handle to the rear with my boot with one of those than with an AR.
If we're going to replace the M16/AR15, let's replace it with a rifle that fixes its weak points, not duplicates them...
Might want to double check w/your PD connection, as all the ones I've handled have sported the same gimpy charging handles as the SL8 (apparently a plastic sheath over a cast-metal core.) I'd no more want to extract a stuck case by kicking the bolt handle to the rear with my boot with one of those than with an AR.
If we're going to replace the M16/AR15, let's replace it with a rifle that fixes its weak points, not duplicates them...
Badger Arms
Member
Charging handle IS made of metal. It looked like it was clearly an Investment Casting as are most parts on Ruger guns. Tire Iron, I wonder if you are simply professing your love for and familiarity with the M16 rather than truly criticizing the G36? I absolutely loathe the charging handle on the M-16 and it's corresponding separate forward assist, etc. The G36 charging handle doubles as a forward assist and does tripple duty as a bolt release. Obviously H&K didn't think this was good either and they incorporated a trigger-guard positioned bolt release on the XM8 that that's being tested as we speak by the Army.
Selector: It was quite easy for me to reach this with my finger or thumb even with gloves on. I have large-to-average sized hands. Look at the picture. If anything, the selector might get in the way and you can't avoid knowing its there. Manipulation is DIFFERENT than the M16, not worse.
Agreed on most other counts. The gun should have a heat shield and the newer ones (XM8 included) do. The XM8 also solves what you percieve as a need for a telescoping buttstock. I've got a different opinion of the locking mechanism for the buttstock. It was SOLID and substantial. The well-used gun that I fired was very solid, which surprised me. I think this is a visual thing because the stock is skeletonized. It did feel very solid though:
Check out my old thread with links to videos and some high-res pictures I took of the gun I evaluated:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53921
Selector: It was quite easy for me to reach this with my finger or thumb even with gloves on. I have large-to-average sized hands. Look at the picture. If anything, the selector might get in the way and you can't avoid knowing its there. Manipulation is DIFFERENT than the M16, not worse.
Agreed on most other counts. The gun should have a heat shield and the newer ones (XM8 included) do. The XM8 also solves what you percieve as a need for a telescoping buttstock. I've got a different opinion of the locking mechanism for the buttstock. It was SOLID and substantial. The well-used gun that I fired was very solid, which surprised me. I think this is a visual thing because the stock is skeletonized. It did feel very solid though:
Check out my old thread with links to videos and some high-res pictures I took of the gun I evaluated:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53921
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