Gangs Account For Almost Half the Homicides in San Diego County

[The Lone Haranguer]

I've said two things for many years. One: if gang members killing other gang members are factored out, the real murder rate goes down by roughly half. Two: if you do not engage in illegal activity yourself, you vastly reduce your chances of being murdered.

 

[Andy-Y]

I base my opinion own my own experiances and beliefs, nothing more nothing less.

I hear ya there, and I can respect that. That's exactly what I am doing, too.

I would bet I have far more experiance with gang members than most of the people on here other than the cops and CO's.

Maybe that's true, but I have quite a bit of experience with gangs too. Crypts, Bloods, Latin Kings, Gangster Disciples...the list goes on. And in MY experience, I haven't met one "real" gang member who wasn't a bonifide criminal.

But, we shall agree to disagree.

 

[Ramone]

but when you can look at someone and clearly see that they are a member of a KNOWN criminal organization, why not treat them as such.

Andy-
is that really what you mean- that you can look at a person, and just know that they are in a gang, or a criminal?

How? I know some Crips, a few M13, as well as a few Pagans, Angels, GJ's, and unless they are wearing colors, I wouldn't be able to tell they were members of a criminal organization.

Ramone

 

[Andy-Y]

Ramone,

No, I can not just glance at someone and say for sure they are in a gang.

But,

Visible gang tatoos (not obvious unless you are very close),

Wearing colors,
This is what I am talking about. Like I said, I work in Detroit, and I dress in baggy clothes. I'm not saying you can tell all the time, but wearing colors in an obvious way is like waving a banner that says "LOOK, I'M A CRIMINAL!", wouldn't you agree?

I do not judge people by dress (except the previously stated exception) or race. I work in a homeless shelter and I can tell you at a quick glance if someone is hopped up on crack or meth, and I watch for other signs such as track marks so I can see what they are up to if they are in the bathroom too long (lot's of people shooting up in the bathrooms).

I see what you are getting at, but what did these gang members you know do to join these organizations? I'm willing to bet it was a violent crime, no? I'm sure there ARE decent people in these gangs, but their reputation precedes them. Most decent people avoid violent crime, so when I see an obvious gang member (wearing colors) walking around, I just wonder why?

 

[Duke Junior]

Strange how the discussion suddenly stopped ,almost like the thread had a heart attack!
What about MS-13 gangs?Are they not infiltrating large parts of small town rural America?

 

[akodo]

How do you define a gang? Sorry dude but unrealistic and impossible solution. In my younger punk rock (early 80's) days I palled around with guys with shaved heads, DOC marten boots and leather jackets. Should we have been considered a gang and therefore not allowed to associate with each other?

This fool doesn't even grasp that is exactly what gun control is: targeting the large law abiding pool, declaring what is a harmless activity for 99.9% illegal simply to thwart the 0.1% of 'bad apples'

 

[BruceRDucer]

Good Topic Duke Junior. GUNS & GANGS

The ongoing war over drug turf is quite serious.

I'll bet that if California had stronger gun control laws that they'd solve this whole problem overnight.... --Larry E

Very funny comment Larry E, and a good point too!

Well, gosh! I wonder why we don't have a similarly severe gang problem in Colorado.

Might be the weather, eh?

Actually, it was getting very bad here in Colorado as I recall, about 10 to 15 years ago. All the California gangs were active in Denver. Then the city toughened its laws, and swooped in and started just locking these guys up. I don't know much about the prison population, but I think that's why there is less violence around Denver Colorado.

Somebody clarify if I am mistaken.

/

Strange how the discussion suddenly stopped ,almost like the thread had a heart attack!
What about MS-13 gangs?Are they not infiltrating large parts of small town rural America?--Duke Junior

From what I see in news, it isn't exactly diminishing.


/

 

[CRITGIT]

Imagine a weekend with 178 vicious gang members slain. Gangs would disappear from the face of the planet toot-sweet. Fearful American residents would merely savor a bad memory of olden gang times. The task force MUST answer to no one throughout countless firefights. America should not be harassed by GANGS. Just fifty years ago, gangs were not so bold as today. Guess I'd make a brutal, if effective PRESIDENT if elected, but "I'd Git er' Done." cliffy

The more exclusion from the mainstream the more the draw to gangs.
We sowed "exclusion" and "double standards" and now we have the by product....gangs!
Soc 101!!!!!!...Not that terribly difficult to figure out!
But it soon will have a chance to change.

yes, as every one in a gang or tied to one is violent criminal whos life is worth less than yours, glad to know that there stalin

TOUCHE!

CRITGIT

 

[CRITGIT]

Imagine a weekend with 178 vicious gang members slain. Gangs would disappear from the face of the planet toot-sweet. Fearful American residents would merely savor a bad memory of olden gang times. The task force MUST answer to no one throughout countless firefights. America should not be harassed by GANGS. Just fifty years ago, gangs were not so bold as today. Guess I'd make a brutal, if effective PRESIDENT if elected, but "I'd Git er' Done." cliffy

The more exclusion from the mainstream the more the draw to gangs.
We sowed "exclusion" and "double standards" and now we have the by product....gangs!
Soc 101!!!!!!...Not that terribly difficult to figure out!
But it soon will have a chance to change.

yes, as every one in a gang or tied to one is violent criminal whos life is worth less than yours, glad to know that there stalin

TOUCHE!

CRITGIT

 

[CRITGIT]

Imagine a weekend with 178 vicious gang members slain. Gangs would disappear from the face of the planet toot-sweet. Fearful American residents would merely savor a bad memory of olden gang times. The task force MUST answer to no one throughout countless firefights. America should not be harassed by GANGS. Just fifty years ago, gangs were not so bold as today. Guess I'd make a brutal, if effective PRESIDENT if elected, but "I'd Git er' Done." cliffy

The more exclusion from the mainstream the more the draw to gangs.
We sowed "exclusion" and "double standards" and now we have the by product....gangs!
Soc 101!!!!!!...Not that terribly difficult to figure out!
But it soon will have a chance to change.

yes, as every one in a gang or tied to one is violent criminal whos life is worth less than yours, glad to know that there stalin

TOUCHE!

CRITGIT

 

[CRITGIT]

I honestly tried to delete this repetive post but it took on a life of it's own not unlike that candy conveyor belt in that old I Love lucy Show!
Sorry!

CRITGIT

 

[Blue .45]

The more exclusion from the mainstream the more the draw to gangs.
We sowed "exclusion" and "double standards" and now we have the by product....gangs!
Soc 101!!!!!!...Not that terribly difficult to figure out!

Of course, It's society's fault. People have absolutely no control over how they choose to live their lives. Thanks for clearing that up for us.

 

[Kind of Blued]

Well, gosh! I wonder why we don't have a similarly severe gang problem in Colorado.

Might be the weather, eh?

Give it some time.

I attended a lecture by the fellow who is in charge of all investigations pertaining to gang violence within the prison system in Colorado last week. He mentioned how Colorado is now being affected by the consequences of California's "three strikes" rule. All of the double felon parolee's are making Colorado their new home.

Of course, if they were reformed, they'd do just fine in California, so expect them to bring along their lifestyles.

Thanks for all of the spare criminals California! We were running pretty low! :banghead:

 

[stevelyn]

The anti gun nuts never get it. Where the citizens are not restricted by tough gun laws that bind law abiding citizens crime goes down.

Sure they do. They just don't care.......about you or crime.

They care about power and who has it. It's all about control. Crime is the subterfuge they use to legislate their power over you.

 

[JWarren]

The more exclusion from the mainstream the more the draw to gangs.
We sowed "exclusion" and "double standards" and now we have the by product....gangs!
Soc 101!!!!!!...Not that terribly difficult to figure out!
But it soon will have a chance to change.

The same old broken record.

Let's see. Most gangmembers are likely below the age of 30. That puts them born in the 70's and graduating anywhere between 1992-ish and 2008 (for arguements sake).

Please explain how ANY in that group have been excluded. They had the opportunity for education and to get a job-- if they took personal responsibility for it.

And you can't tell me any differently regarding that. I went to a high-minority rural high school and somehow still managed to get a Master's Degree in college and a good career.


You see, the idea of personal responsibility is lost on those that make the societal arguement. It's always someone elses' fault. Some of the most successful persons from both my graduating class and my sister's (1987) have been from less-avantaged and minority backgrounds. But they worked for what they wanted.

The reality that you don't want to face is that many simply don't want to focus, take responsibility for their future, or work for it. And EVERYONE is great at making all the excuses as to why current situtions are not a fuction of their own actions and attitudes. And they can always count on many who are more than willing to accept that excuse.

But it soon will have a chance to change.

And what are you forseeing as this chance? If it is what I am thinking, that's just sad.


-- John

 

[red headed stranger]

An additional downside of the gang violence is the way that it inflates statistics that greatly help the antis.

A significant number of gun homicides and "child" gun deaths can be directly attributed to gang on gang violence.

 

[BruceRDucer]

"Defending street gangs is a losing argument."

says you, and im not
defending the gangs or the nature of them at all.

just that, people are people, some good some bad, some down right evil.

I base my opinion own my own experiances and beliefs, nothing more nothing less.

I would bet I have far more experiance with gang members than most of the people on here other than the cops and CO's.

I dont like the idea of lumping groups of people together and judging them all to be inherantly good or bad.

agin, were all human beings. ----TheKen

Ken:

Your argument has salient points. However, the points become in the end, advocacies for approaches to social correction and personal values. These are distinct from the propositions for Self-Defense and Legal possession of firearms.

Having introduced your salient points, which are rather like:

(1) Not all issues are statistical issues

[A Jungian proposition by the way, and quite true where individuals are concerned.]

(2) A proposition for Good and Evil, including various degrees of same in people. [Good point]

(3) That you personally, have more experience with gangs

[Which is not for us to argue, because that is a private, rather than a public issue]

(4) That you object to generalizing that some people are either Good or Bad without recognition that nearly all human beings do not fit a stereotype, and many are redeemable.

[By the way, movies rely very much on "fictionalized" human beings, the Bad guys being so violent and evil, we desire them killed by violent means as retribution, and we want the Good guys to do it with exciting action.]
Good point.

----------------------------------------------------------

Good points all, especially if one recognizes that many people reform and become acceptable persons contributing to the good of society.

But our attitudes are grounded more in terms of Self-Defense.

What that means is, we are not engaged in philosophical dialogue with individuals who are addressing their concerns for reasonable and fair treatment in terms of their personal redemption.

It is a Self-Defense issue which motivates the concern.
If the Lawless, possessing unlawful arms, are permitted to freely operate in a community, there will be no recognizable community operating by Law, but only a community operating in lawlessness, at the lowest level of human interaction.

Therefore, approaching the subject of Gangs from a therapeutic or redemptive perspective is valid, but not precisely valid in propositions for self defense.

Thanks for your comment.
/

 

[CRITGIT]

Of course, It's society's fault. People have absolutely no control over how they choose to live their lives. Thanks for clearing that up for us.

Denial won't help much!
Whenever a group is ostracized the result too often is gangs.

We don't have such a good history in that regard.
You reap what you sew!
But there's hope on the horizon!

CRITGIT

 

[donato]

Denial won't help much!
Whenever a group is ostracized the result too often is gangs.

Gangs are what they are and nothing more - bad people doing bad things.

We don't have such a good history in that regard

Agree, but then, who else in the world does?

You reap what you sew!

Yes, something each and everyone of us needs to remember - it's not an exclusive thing.

But there's hope on the horizon

I sure hope so. But, here a discerning eye must be maintained; sometimes the messiah is nothing more than a false profit.

 

[JWarren]

I sure hope so. But, here a discerning eye must be maintained; sometimes the messiah is nothing more than a false profit.

You're wasting your breath (typing?), my friend.

Insomuch as we've been accused of "clinging to guns and religion," many similarly cling to the cult of BHO.


-- John

 

[Duke Junior]

You're wasting your breath (typing?), my friend.

In so much as we've been accused of "clinging to guns and religion," many similarly cling to the cult of BHO.

If that isn't the truth!
More and more ,I'm running into under 40 year old, supposedly conservative gun owners who flat out tell me,Barry is the answer,our society is broken,the economy is in a handbasket and the "prophet" is the only answer.
Russians in 1920,Germans in 1933 and Cubans in 1959 are only a few examples of this easily embraced delusion.
As my wise Granddad always told me,"I'll only applaud when the performance is over."
Our sad National performance may be about to begin.

 

[gripper]

You are what you do....do good;probably a good guy ( or girl)...do bad....
I find a lot to agree with on both sides of this discussion.Appearances can be interpreted ( or misinterpreted) based on nothing but comfort levels/good or bad info.
I have had folks err on BOTH sides of that coin with me.

 

[Blue .45]

Denial won't help much!

Yet, you continue to live in it.

But there's hope on the horizon!

-

You have a new plan, which will make people take responsibility for themselves?
Great! let's hear it.

 

[Duke Junior]

Quote:
Denial won't help much!
Yet, you continue to live in it.

Quote:
But there's hope on the horizon!
-

You have a new plan, which will make people take responsibility for themselves?
Great! let's hear it.

Halftime,I see you are still waiting for an answer!