Garand Family

[entropy]

Can you say gladiator....

I was thinking more German style sallet c.1513 as in Dürer.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

The Experimental Helmet Model 8 shows up where you least expect it.

 

[lysanderxiii]

I think the T47 had a stripper guide on the receiver bridge, but the lack of an inserted magazine would make his next action look considerably less heroic.

Neither the T25 nor the T47 had provisions for stripper clip reloading.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Neither the T25 nor the T47 had provisions for stripper clip reloading.

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Cool photos -- where did you find them?

 

[Terry G]

At least you and I agree that the "shoulder thing that goes up" refers to the folding outer buttplate (shoulder rest). The consensus on this and other forums is that the "shoulder thing that goes up" is a barrel shroud. Doesn't make any sense to me, but whatever. Former Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, who originated the "shoulder thing that goes up" phrase, knew absolutely nothing about guns, except that she hated them.

The folding outer buttplate is an iconic feature of the M14, and as such it's worth having from a collector standpoint. It was clearly inspired by the similar folding shoulder rest on the M1918A2 BAR, but that one only extended about halfway down. The M14 rest fully covers the buttplate.

I qualified with the M14 in Basic Training and were told the flip up butt plate was to be used with the full automatic function to "Keep the barrel from climbing". What a joke! First round was on target, the rest were anti aircraft. I had occasion to fired the E-2 version with the heavier stock and pistol grip and it climbed pretty much the same as the original. Very glad to get the M16 A1 when it was for real.

 

[tark]

We had some T-25s at the Arsenal museum. The fourth gun down is missing its pistol grip.

 

[tark]

I qualified with the M14 in Basic Training and were told the flip up butt plate was to be used with the full automatic function to "Keep the barrel from climbing". What a joke! First round was on target, the rest were anti aircraft. I had occasion to fired the E-2 version with the heavier stock and pistol grip and it climbed pretty much the same as the original. Very glad to get the M16 A1 when it was for real.

I was told the same thing. I believe it is more useful from the prone, bipod deployed position. It keeps the butt stock from dropping off of your shoulder.

 

[AlexanderA]

We had some T-25s at the Arsenal museum. The fourth gun down is missing its pistol grip.

The similar gun at the very bottom of your picture has its pistol grip. It looks to me that the profile of the grip was copied from the second version of the German FG42.

I was told the same thing. I believe it is more useful from the prone, bipod deployed position. It keeps the butt stock from dropping off of your shoulder.

The folding shoulder rest comes from the legacy of the WW2 BAR. (The BAR was one of the weapons that in theory were supposed to be replaced by the M14.) When firing from the bipod, in the prone position, you need some way to keep the butt from slipping off your shoulder. One early solution for the BAR was the butt monopod, but that proved to be impractical. The folding shoulder rest served the same purpose.

The GI's who discarded the BAR bipods (and there are lots of pictures showing missing BAR bipods and flash hiders) actually gave up a lot of the gun's effectiveness. But the bipod was so badly designed, that who can blame them?

 

[lysanderxiii]

Cool photos -- where did you find them?

The Springfield Armory historical site.

 

[4v50 Gary]

I haven't been to Springfield since the '90s. If the city didn't suck, it would be a fun place to work at.

 

[DukeConnor]

I came across Edward Ezell's book The Great Rifle Controversy back in the mid-1980s, when I was making pocket money at the CSU Fresno Library between classes. From chapter two onward, this book chronicled post-WWII US military rifle development up through the SPIW program, ending with the M16A2. Perhaps a third of the book involves the M14 design and production story. I think I've read it three times now -- really fascinating history.

Used copies of this book are expensive, but your local public library should be able borrow one for you via interlibrary loan.

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A big detour off-topic:

I grew up reading my dad's old copies of Mechanix Illustrated magazine, which often included exciting and fanciful articles about future military weaponry. I was particularly struck by this Frank Tinsley illustration from the June 1952 issue of Mechanix Illustrated:

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I had a poster-sized print of this two-page illustration made up recently for my bedroom wall. The rifle depicted isn't the proto-M14 (T44) but Earle Harvey's developmental T47 (mentioned in the article text) with Tinsley's own idea for a lightweight stock. The T25 and T47 were designs that head of the Ordnance Department's Small Arms Research division, Rene Studler, backed for a time, before the T44 was more fully developed. Ezell's book later provided me with the back-story on Earle Harvey's work for Ordnance.

As a kid though, I was drawn more to the helmets in this illustration. I later learned this was Bashford Dean's Model 8 helmet, designed back during WWI. The helmet looked pretty cool to me, until I considered how it would restrict vision and interfere with other equipment, but even at that age I found the boots and battle shorts a bit hard to swallow.

I had a Farrah Fawcett poster

 

[4v50 Gary]

Yeah, especially as they seemed to be greaves more than boots (and a strap-on legging would make more sense, anyway).
Minor things, like a chest full of ammo pockets, but exposed grenades? (and the pockets aren't big enough for the magazines, so that's stripper clip ammo, despite the foreground dude not having a magazine in his Carbine-sized "M14").

But, the poster did embrace the stated notion of replacing M-3 Grease Gun, M-2/3 Carbine, M-1 Rifle, and the BAR in one do-it-all weapon.

I also noticed those greaves and unlike the Grecian hoplite one, the modern interpretation has a calf protector. The Grecian ones were pulled open and allowed to close around the lower leg. I noticed that the troops they are fighting are either Korean or Chinese. If it's winter time, I'd bet they'd want long johns and wool pants on. Bronze greaves would draw heat from the wearer and cause frostbite.

As for the exposed grenades, in Korea Gen. Matthew Ridgeway was nicknamed "Iron t*ts" for wearing his grenades that manner.