M1 Garand or M1A

[glockenstein]

I have one thing to say... Road Trip!!! Drive all the way to Camp Perry and you can pick it out your M1 for yourself. It'll be like a quest. With the money you save from buying the M1 you can buy lots of ammo (which you'll need)

 

[Sven]

Get em both, while you can. And lots of them!

 

[SteelyDan]

Good info, Swampy.

 

[ScottsGT]

Cracked Butt,
There is a solution to the commercial ammo problem. There is an adjustable gas screw that you can use that solves the problem of over pressurizing the gas cylinder. It is that phillips head looking screw on the end of the gas chamber right below the barrel. I've also heard that if you shoot 150 commercial bullets you should be OK too. I think it is the heavier bullets that take longer to get out of the barrel is the problem.

 

[marvl]

I'll second dave3006's recommendation. Get a CMP Garand and send it to Dean. I had him do 2 Garands for me and was very pleased with his work and reasonable prices. My experience with SA has not been the most pleasant. YMMV.

Oh yeah, there is a special level in hell for those that convert Garands to .308. Do so at your own risk.

 

[BerettaNut92]

Springfield needs to take some of their great people in customer service and put them in charge of QC. They've treated me great every time I've talked to them (too many times ) but my rifle should not have ever left the factory.

 

[Swampy]

marvl wrote:

Oh yeah, there is a special level in hell for those that convert Garands to .308. Do so at your own risk.

Does that include the entire collection of Small Arms Techies of the US Navy???

Garands forever,
Swampy

 

[Nightcrawler]

Does that include the entire collection of Small Arms Techies of the US Navy???

Espeically them.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

The whole navy's going to hell anyway, though.

 

[Jmurman]

If you are a veteran, all you have to do is JOIN a club. After that you don't have to do anything.

I am sending my application to the Garand Collectors Assoc today. I spoke with CMP yesterday and they seem very friendly and helpful.

I guess that is all goes well, I should have my Garand by November or December.

 

[ScottsGT]

Maybe sooner...... Mine only took 4 weeks at most.

 

[VG]

The other downside to the garand, is that you'l probably need to handload for it. I'm not sure what commercial ammo is usable in the garand and I'm not willing to experiment. Surplus ammo is fairly difficult to find, and isn't of the highest quality for the price you'll pay for it if you do find it. Standard fare hunting ammo in the garand is a serious no-no if you value your oprod.

Federal American Eagle 30.06 is very similar to M2 Ball, and is well under $10 per box. It's boat-tailed, shoots well. I've purchased it from Natchez for as little as $6.40 per box, or $0.32 per round.

CMP also sells their own load of 30.06, amde by Federal (which chronos just like
the American Eagle, I'm told). But purchase quantities are greater, most people find a buddy or two to split an order.

PMC's "Bronze" line is also OK for Garands.

The Taiwanese surplus ammo is pretty cheap - some are selling ot for $89 for 400, shipping included. That's $0.23 per round, or about what the best deals for Lake City or the Danish ammo were, although more than milsurp 7.62.

Oh yeah, there is a special level in hell for those that convert Garands to .308. Do so at your own risk.

Whatever. What's the difference between replacing a shot-out barrel with a commercially made 30.06 barrel or a commercially made barrel shooting the ballistically identical replacement to the [hard to find milsurp] 30.06? You can't shoot in John C. Garand matches, but you can still shoot in Service Rifle, and I've seen good quality milsurp in case lots for $0.10 per round or less.

CMP now has a Less-Wood Rack Grade for $300. Great starting point for a .308 "shooter." Now, if I didn't have three cases of the Danish milsurp left.....

 

[Abominable No-Man]

I'm prejudiced.

M1A, hands-down, if you were asking me only, but the M1 has a lot of good points, too. I think the M1 is a little faster to reload, too, but I personaly prefer the M14. 7.62 mm/.308 is a little more versatile in my book, too- I love the .30-06 Remington 700 I own, but I prefer the '06 in a bolt action myself- but that's just me. My dad had an M1 in Vietnam (early days), but he was in the Navy and they rechambered their M1's to 7.62, also.

ANM

 

[VG]

This is about the military M14 and not the civilian M1A, but FWIW:

At the Infantry Forum (http://www.infantry.army.mil/infforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=424

There's the following comment about the M14:

"Most of the legend of the M14 seems to be based on National Match, M21, and other custom-tuned examples. Ironically, during its brief production run, the rack-grade M14 was considered to be inferior to the earlier M1 Garand in both design and workmanship. In March of 1962, Aberdeen's Development and Proof Services released "Report on Tests for Ad Hoc Committee on Accuracy and Testing of 7.62mm Ammunition and M14 Rifles". For the testing, twenty-one M14 rifles had been chosen at random from rifles already accepted for military issue. Three manufacturers (Springfield, Winchester, and H&R) were represented by seven new rifles apiece.

* All of the rifles from Winchester and H&R exhibited excessive headspace.

* All of the rifles had loose handguards.

* 95% of the rifles had loose stock bands.

* 90% of the rifles had loose gas cylinders.

* 75% of the rifles had misaligned op rods and gas pistons.

* 50% of the rifles had loose op rod guides.

* 50% of the rifles had op rods which rubbed the stock.

* Three rifles had barrels which exceeded the maximum bore dimensions.

* Only three rifles had an average bore diameter which fell below the accepted mean diameter.

* One rifle was found to have a broken safety while another had a misassembled safety spring.

* One rifle had a misassembled flash suppressor which was actually contacting bullets during live fire tests

A barrel from each manufacturer was sectioned for examination of the bore and chrome lining. The chrome lining was out of tolerance (uneven and on average too thin) in all three barrels. The H&R barrel also failed the surface-finish requirements.

During accuracy testing, the M14 rifles produced greater group dispersion and variation in the center of impact than the control rifles (two M1 Garands rechambered for 7.62x51mm along with two AR10). NATO testing was quoted indicating that the Canadian C1 (FN FAL) and German G3 were also less sensitive to variations within and among ammo lots.

Shutting off the gas port in the M14 rifles resulted in an average 20% reduction in extreme spread compared to those groups fired with the gas port open. This also reduced the variation in the center of impact. "

 

[Blain]

Here are the replies in defense of the M14 from a battlerifles thread.

go here for the link http://www.battlerifles.com/viewtopic.php?t=19094&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

please note that failure to go BANG was not listed as a problem.

Now here's the interesting thing. It took roughly 5 years during the initial tool up phase of the M14 to identify its deficiencies, correct them, and get the rifles already in the field up to the new spec. After that, it became the dependable, rugged, and heavy hitting rifle that so many veterans of the period long for.

(from above, continued) Now, it's been rounghly 35 years since the M16 was adopted. It still has reliability problems under adverse conditions.

Any questions?

On a side note, I think if you check with ejclancy, you'll find that the M1 Garand had a similar tuning period as the M14. Yet nobody seems to want to say that the Garand was an inferior rifle.

Note that none of the items listed are DESIGN deficiencies.

If you read the production history of the M14 rifle, you'll see that the rifle, although accepted in 1957, wasn't really placed into serious production until 1961-62. The major bidders went super low to get the scarce military contracts, and provided the usual low-bidder quality to the military. There were less than 100,000 M14 rifles in existence when this test was performed. It took another year to get the production standards up to par, and the rifles in the field upgraded.

 

[repsychler]

How do folks typically fill the shooting requirement to get a CMP Garand? I'm not a vet and I don't belong to any local clubs, what's the most expedient way to do it?

 

[NEtracker]

Check with the CMP, they will accept an NRA course completion where there is a course of fire (like Basic Pistol for ex.).
Also, many clubs hold HP shooting events where you can go and pay a small fee to participate, then you can get your proof of marksmanship activity (signed target, certif, etc).

 

[repsychler]

Sweet...maybe they'll take my CCW class then. It had a shooting qualification and the instructor was NRA certified.

I'd love to find a local highpower match, but have been so far unable to.

 

[ScottsGT]

My CWP traning is what qualified me. It will work. I included a photocopy of my CWP, a copy of my certificate of completion and a photocopy of the SC law that states the shooting requirements.

 

[kentucky bucky]

1. No rifle feels better than the Garand against your shoulder or in your hands!
2. They also preserved our way of life. (with the help of a few million GI's)


3. Clip sings to you as it is ejected.


4. They're cool !

 

[NEtracker]

With all of the "pinging" (my M1) at the range yesterday, I was getting quite a few inquiries about the CMP and my HRA.
There was a full lineup sighting-in for hunting season, but no classics like the Garand, mostly shiny new rifles/shotguns.
I managed to get 2 MOA on my 4th target (200 yard reduced for 100).