Gas Pressure Protection System

[zollen]

Pressure Relief Valve (PSV) for standard Direct Impingement AR's.

Standard Gas Block with integrated PSV

Disassembly Diagram

Belleville Springs Washers Reference (explaining the strength of spring washers)
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B9XSnDKMwpPONGRmYjU4NzUtZTU0My00Y2NlLWEzYWQtOGRjOGUzMGMwNGQy&hl=en_US

Design and Animation (created by Google Sketchup8 Free Edition)
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B9XSnDKMwpPOOGNhMjQzMTUtOGQ1Ny00NTliLWEyYWUtODkzOGUwNDc5N2Ux&hl=en_US



Features and Advantages
1. Improve durability and longevity of AR internals.
2. Automatic adjust internal gas pressure when equiped with sound suppressor
3. Automatic adjust internal gas pressure when chambered with ammo of different brands
4. Completely disabling gas pressure by removing PSV internal (i.e. springs groups and main seal..etc)
5. Simple and durable design
6. Interchangeable spring groups for different barrel lengths (i.e. 7.5", 10.5", 12.5", 14.5" and 16"..etc)
7. Decrease the possibility of receiver explosion or catastrophic failure as a result of extreme gas pressure.

 

[Sentry71]

Just as a warning... I was hit with a trojan when attempting to look at the first link. I don't know if it will affect others, but thought the warning would be appropriate.

 

[Owen]

1. Why not something in line with the gas tube. Your location is going to interfere with one of the best places to put a light.

2. I'm not sure carbon fiber is the best choice for a material. It's going to tend to hold in heat instead of dumping it. I'm alos not sure how it will hold up to being cleaned with metal scrapers. Anything those close to the gas port is going to copper badly.

3.How did you size your piston? It's huge. You know we are talking about 12-20 ksi here, right?

4. The problem with suppressors is not the pressure at the port. The port pressure is identical suppressed or un-suppressed. What changes is the duration of the pressure,, which drives up the bolt velocity. I suppose this might help with the by bleeding pressure off, resulting is a similar impulse, but there is going to be either some heavy duty math, or a lot of make it and break it prototypes required.

 

[zollen]

1. Why not something in line with the gas tube. Your location is going to interfere with one of the best places to put a light.

2. I'm not sure carbon fiber is the best choice for a material. It's going to tend to hold in heat instead of dumping it. I'm alos not sure how it will hold up to being cleaned with metal scrapers. Anything those close to the gas port is going to copper badly.

3.How did you size your piston? It's huge. You know we are talking about 12-20 ksi here, right?

4. The problem with suppressors is not the pressure at the port. The port pressure is identical suppressed or un-suppressed. What changes is the duration of the pressure,, which drives up the bolt velocity. I suppose this might help with the by bleeding pressure off, resulting is a similar impulse, but there is going to be either some heavy duty math, or a lot of make it and break it prototypes required.

1. The PSV (pressure relief valve) could be placed at the bottom of the gas block, or the other side of the gas block.

2. I was looking for a light weight, cost effective, heat resistance and low heat conductivity materials for most of the 'support' components. It could made out of an advance composite materials (with carbon fiber as part of its makeup)

3. The total diameter of the PSV is about the same as ( or slightly larger than) the AR barrel. Do not let the scale fools you.

 

[zollen]

I have fixed my first post.

Design and Animation (created by Google Sketchup8 Free Edition)
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...ZTU0My00Y2NlLWEzYWQtOGRjOGUzMGMwNGQy&hl=en_US

Belleville Springs Washers Reference (explaining the strength of spring washers)
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B9...OGQ1Ny00NTliLWEyYWUtODkzOGUwNDc5N2Ux&hl=en_US

 

[Fast Frank]

Wouldn't Pressure Relief Valve be "PRV"?

What's the "S" for?

 

[browneu]

What's the problem that you're trying to solve?

Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk

 

[zollen]

I have moved the documents to google document site.

 

[mc223]

Wow Look another solution to a nonexistent problem.

 

[zollen]

Noveske Switchblocks

I take one step further and convert gas block into auto-adoptable gas block for sound suppressors and for ammo of different brands.

 

[Sam Cade]

Wow Look another solution to a nonexistent problem.

Exactly.
There is some resemblance to the self-twirling spaghetti fork .


One major difference though....the guy that designed that fork had actually eaten some spaghetti at some point.

 

[zollen]

1. Why not something in line with the gas tube. Your location is going to interfere with one of the best places to put a light.

This is designed as a drop-in kit for existing DI AR's. This kit would comes with two favors. A2 style front sight with built-in PSV, or rail gas block with built-in PSV.

The existing standard Gas blocks are basically a block of solid metal (with internal gas channel). I thought we could introduce a little complexity to turn it into a auto-adaptable gas block.

 

[Tirod]

I gave it some thought: what is the biggest problem with shooting cheap import ammo? Not enough gas to reliably cycle the action. Accommodate it too much with a big port, the BCG cycles too fast and you get bolt override on milspec ammo.

If a straight gas port was just fine for semi auto shotgun owners, there would only be one load. But that's not acceptable, same gun and gunner hunts birds, geese, and deer. So, the gun testers load magnum #4's and light #9 bird loads alternately to force it to fail. Some do.

Be interesting if someone would load Wolff and XM193 alternately just to see if their gun hangs up trying to digest it. Those TEO/Zombie players would like to know if scrounged ammo is any good. After all, Mad Max had to check his.

Sure, it's mostly an academic exercise - that's exactly how Stoner got started. If there doesn't seem to be any immediate use don't think it's not useful at all.

 

[zollen]

I gave it some thought: what is the biggest problem with shooting cheap import ammo? Not enough gas to reliably cycle the action. Accommodate it too much with a big port, the BCG cycles too fast and you get bolt override on milspec ammo.

If a straight gas port was just fine for semi auto shotgun owners, there would only be one load. But that's not acceptable, same gun and gunner hunts birds, geese, and deer. So, the gun testers load magnum #4's and light #9 bird loads alternately to force it to fail. Some do.

Be interesting if someone would load Wolff and XM193 alternately just to see if their gun hangs up trying to digest it. Those TEO/Zombie players would like to know if scrounged ammo is any good. After all, Mad Max had to check his.

Sure, it's mostly an academic exercise - that's exactly how Stoner got started. If there doesn't seem to be any immediate use don't think it's not useful at all.

Instead of categorizing springs groups in calibers + barrel lengths, perhaps springs groups should be categorized by pressure thresholds, so owners could get the right springs specifically for their rifles.

 

[Owen]

I'm not fooled by the size. at 20ksi, you're looking at about 4 tons of force on the piston, assuming a .750" diameter. IOW, the piston in huge.

I think it would work just fine without venting out the front. Kinda pointless to put this on a suppressed gun, and reintroduce the thump from your doo-dad.

 

[jim243]

Reminds me too much of the piston AR's, there might be a patient problem there? Gas relief valves are gas relief valves weither for DI or Piston. But if Benz did not invent the desiel we would not have the internal combustion engine (gas) and be riding horses now.

Jim

 

[Kurt_D]

Features and Advantages
1. Improve durability and longevity of AR internals.
2. Automatic adjust internal gas pressure when equiped with sound suppressor
3. Automatic adjust internal gas pressure when chambered with ammo of different brands
4. Completely disabling gas pressure by removing PSV internal (i.e. springs groups and main seal..etc)
5. Simple and durable design
6. Interchangeable spring groups for different barrel lengths (i.e. 7.5", 10.5", 12.5", 14.5" and 16"..etc)
7. Decrease the possibility of receiver explosion or catastrophic failure as a result of extreme gas pressure.

1) So will the proper buffer, assuming your talking about the extractor, plus that's not hanging off the front of the barrel. What else could it help, the bolt? Heat kills bolts and rings and on a semi AR that usually isn't a issue. Most people will never shoot enough rounds through their AR to wear out a bolt, and those that do probably just keep a spare.
2) Pressure doesn't matter here as it's the same reguardless. It just the pulse last longer when running a suppressor. Your valve does nothing to solve that.
3) Not an issue with domestic ammo as a properly tuned DI system has a lot of forgiveness built in. Plus the biggest issue with surplus or foreign ammo is too little port pressure to cycle. Again your valve does nothing to solve that.
4) Why is that a feature? The action won't cycle because gas will take the path of lease resistance. It's useless for single shot suppressor use because now the gas valve makes a loud pop.
5) I'm not sold on carbon fiber holding up to the heat and fouling. It's not simple, in fact your adding parts to complicate a system. What happens when your valve gets stuck in the full open position due to fouling?
6) Proper spec gas port in the first place and your added weight isn't needed.
7) This is 100% false and shows you have no idea what you're doing. Kabooms happen for one of 2 reasons on an AR: 1) defective ammo 2) out of spec chamber. With over pressured ammo and weak cased ammo the case head seperates and destroys the gun. Your little device won't do anything as the gun KB before the bullet even reaches your device. An out of spec chamber that allows a case to over stretch and blow won't be effected either.

 

[Kurt_D]

I've seen the basic concept on what the OP wants in my Beretta shotgun. Basically they are gassed to cycle the weakest trap factory loads available and then use a relief valve to bleed excess pressure for heavier loads and magnums. Problem is the heavier loads still beat the crap out of the shooter and gun but that is the nature of factory shotshells.

The 5.56/.223 and the DI AR don't operate over this wide of a range. The AR is designed to handle many thousands of rounds (10,000+) of full power 5.56. An in-spec system is forgiving enough to cycle weaker .223. This is a design for a solution looking for a problem.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

i dont really have any comment on the design except to say, thank you for not using paint.

 

[zollen]

1) So will the proper buffer, assuming your talking about the extractor, plus that's not hanging off the front of the barrel. What else could it help, the bolt? Heat kills bolts and rings and on a semi AR that usually isn't a issue. Most people will never shoot enough rounds through their AR to wear out a bolt, and those that do probably just keep a spare.
2) Pressure doesn't matter here as it's the same reguardless. It just the pulse last longer when running a suppressor. Your valve does nothing to solve that.
3) Not an issue with domestic ammo as a properly tuned DI system has a lot of forgiveness built in. Plus the biggest issue with surplus or foreign ammo is too little port pressure to cycle. Again your valve does nothing to solve that.
4) Why is that a feature? The action won't cycle because gas will take the path of lease resistance. It's useless for single shot suppressor use because now the gas valve makes a loud pop.
5) I'm not sold on carbon fiber holding up to the heat and fouling. It's not simple, in fact your adding parts to complicate a system. What happens when your valve gets stuck in the full open position due to fouling?
6) Proper spec gas port in the first place and your added weight isn't needed.
7) This is 100% false and shows you have no idea what you're doing. Kabooms happen for one of 2 reasons on an AR: 1) defective ammo 2) out of spec chamber. With over pressured ammo and weak cased ammo the case head seperates and destroys the gun. Your little device won't do anything as the gun KB before the bullet even reaches your device. An out of spec chamber that allows a case to over stretch and blow won't be effected either.

I just want to comment on import ammo with insufficient gas problem, perhaps using a lighter springs group would help solve the problem?

 

[MyOpinion]

Andrew Wyatt

i dont really have any comment on the design except to say, thank you for not using paint.

^^^^^^That right there is funny^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Artiz]

Zollen, apart from flooding every AR-15 forum on the Internet with your crap, I know you live in Canada (remember, under the name cptm4 on M4Carbine.net, before you got banned, for the SECOND TIME).
You know you will never, ever be able to produce the part in Canada and sell it in the U.S. You have never shot an AR-15, you probably never handled one since the last time you put your stuff on M4Carbine.net, I asked you if you had a restricted firearms permit (to be able to own and shoot an AR-15) and you said no, not even a non-restricted permit. Since it is very clear that you have NO experience with the AR-15 whatsoever (want me to bring the "Circular Direct Imprintment Gas System" or the "Self propelled Gas Piston System" to the table?) I would suggest you to stop trying to solve problems that do not exist, on a firearm you have no knowledge about. Is CanadianGunNutz.com flooded with that crap too?