Gauss Weapons

[Nightcrawler]

We've talked about the possible future use of gauss weapons as small arms. A guass weapon, a.k.a. railguns/coilguns, use electromagnets to accellerate the projectile down the barrel.

Advantages are many. For one, the weapon would have almost no moving parts; the most complicated part of the weapon would be the ammunition feeding device.

They'd be very quiet. If they were subsonic, they'd probably be silent.

By adjusting the power, you could have adjustable muzzle velocity.

A projectile of any shape, weight, or material could be used. Imagine whittling your own bullets.

The big downside is that we don't currently have a power supply that's suitable. But that could change.

But check out what this guy made: CLICKY

Fellow in Russia built a working gauss pistol. It's not powerful or anything; it fires a 2.75 gram projectile at 33 meters per second, with a 25 second recharge between shots.

Not bad for a homebuilt, though. Given an adequate power supply, such devices could easily become real weapons.

Thoughts?

 

[Preacherman]

There's an easy way to protect yourself, though - just use a gauss mask...

 

[Nightcrawler]

*SIGH*

Preacher, dontcha know that angels cry when you make bad puns?

LOL

 

[Weimadog]

I gauss he just can't resist those puns! He just has to field one.

Nightcrawler, I don't think just any material could be used for bullets. Wouldn't the material have to be ferrous, and magnetic?

Weimadog

 

[TarpleyG]

Just begauss someone has a sense of humor doesn't mean he should be ridiculed.

GT

 

[Weimadog]

Inappropriate as it is, Preacherman can get away with it because of his magnetic personality, and he does stay current with things.

 

[armoredman]

Tungsten steel - used in WWII as an AP round, could be again. The pistol could easily shoot saboted darts....
I wonder if thier is a rifle version of this thing floating around in this guys head/drawing board? By AZ law, this is NOT a firearm....

 

[Mute]

Put down the joystick and step away from that Mechwarrior video game!

 

[Penforhire]

For close-to-available-now, how about a fuel cell (alcohol or hydrogen) powering up some super-capacitors? A large current has to be handled by coils so high-temp superconducting wire would be useful.

You have to wonder if a mechanical spring-start wouldn't be useful to overcome static friction and kick-start the projectile?

And don't you want super-high magnetic permeability projectiles? Probably clashes with desired terminal ballistics. Ferrite is too soft.

 

[cordex]

Neat that he built it in a portable package, but the single-stage design isn't anything special. Anyone can wire caps up to a single stage - no magic there. The trick is multiple staged coils. If he can pull that off, he'll have something.

They'd be very quiet. If they were subsonic, they'd probably be silent.

Not quite. The capacitor discharge is audible.

A projectile of any shape, weight, or material could be used. Imagine whittling your own bullets.

As others mentioned, a coilgun projectile would have to be ferrous.

 

[TerryBob]

I ain't gonna buy one until it comes in black

On the serious side, couldn't a larger power pack be in the holster with a cord attached?

 

[Brian Williams]

Would it be GAUSSH to get it as a nickle plated sissy pistol with fake micarta mother of pearl grips

Then some one could really Cap some else.

 

[TerryBob]

I don't know professr, but as it looks now, I might confuse it with my hair dryer. Now that would make for a real bad hair day.

TerryBob

 

[Nick1911]

Would it be possible to use hall-efect transistors (i think these are the ones that dectect a magnetic presence)near the barrel to detect projectile locaton and trigger other coils farther down to accelerate the projectile more? Any electronics professionals out there? Just thinking out loud...
-Nick

 

[Penforhire]

I don't know if Hall-effect sensors respond quickly enough. Probably.

I was thinking for a specific projectile you could just program the timing (no feedback on projectile location). But since there's no pressure in the barrel you could also employ straight optoelectronics (beam-breaking) thorough ports. Also, the moving projectile will generate some feedback in the thrust circuits themselves, though maybe at too low a signal-to-noise to detect.

 

[manwithoutahome]

That would be illegal here anyway, they just "renewed" the "plasic gun ban" so it is illegal to make or have.

Good idea though.

M

 

[P95Carry]

The guy has obviously done some dedicated work .. (even if his batteries are <gulp> .... Chinese made!!), but I don't think handgun is the easiest platform on which to develop this idea. I wonder what his total capacitance adds up to in that .. probably large value electrolytics for sure ...... and wonder what his charging circuitry comprizes.

I'd think a way forward might better be achieved using a rifle approach. That would allow a bit more space availability for charge storage devices (cap's or anything else) .... plus .. the extra length could really allow for a more ''rail'' approach. Imagining the ''rolled-out--armature'' principle ... there could be a series of some 20 winding pairs. Weight could quickly be a problem tho.

Then, the firing sequencing ...... hmmm ...... assuming the required very high current can be achieved ..... maybe then a multiple thyristor (SCR per coil pair) array could be sequenced from a down- timer. From initiation of firing ... then a ''bucket brigade'' type effect could be employed ... with just micro seconds between each firing pulse to next coil pair's SCR. Same principle as used in electronic ''reverb'' chips.

Prob with all this still tho is bulk, weight . and power supply (more weight!). The concept works - we know that - but scaling down is the prob ... same with fusion reactions!!

Oh dear ... another senile ramble.! Sorry!

 

[El Guero]

My dad works for General Dynamics and has actually designed a railgun barrel, but I've never seen it. I guess the U.S. Military is interested in a larger, vehicle mounted rifle while you guys seem to be looking for handhelds. He says they want to use it for taking out helicopters because the railgun creates an instantaneous projectile so you wouldn't have to lead it.

 

[SnWnMe]

I like Gauss rifles on a Mad Cat

 

[cordex]

That would be illegal here anyway, they just "renewed" the "plasic gun ban" so it is illegal to make or have.

Doubleplus untrue.
Still an awful lot of metal in that. Plus, isn't technically a firearm.

I was thinking for a specific projectile you could just program the timing (no feedback on projectile location).

The timing would have to be very precise, and the projectiles would have to be very similar in size, weight, shape and composition.
Keep in mind, if a coil fires even slightly late, the projectile will be decellerated rather than accellerated.
Ideally, a coil should fire just as the projectile starts to enter its area of influence and then shut down just as it passes into the midpoint of the coil. Timing that exactly beyond two coils could be very difficult.

I'd like to feel the recoil of a 6 stage coil gun.

 

[Nick1911]

hmm... optical sensors; that's a really good idea! With that it wouldn't be too hard to interface into a computer; and for portability you could use a "basic stamp" ( see here ). Though on second thoughts, i don't know if you could get that to run fast enough - however it would be somewhat more flexable for the experimenter then a component setup
-Nick

 

[M67]

People have been toying with this idea for a couple of hundred years. I think there was an article in Scientific American about coil guns, a rifle iirc, around 1850...

A Norwegian scientist's patent from 1901 involved coil guns using several hundred coils. He built working small scale prototypes - shooting 10 kg (!) projectiles. I think he used some form of mechanical switches that switched on and turned off each coil as the projectile accelerated through them, and it worked, but not well enough for the project to be a success. If he could do it more than a hundred years ago, I'm sure the timing problem can be solved with modern electronics. A rail approach is of course another solution to this problem.

I don't think the projectile has to be ferrous, as long as the magnetic field is strong enough. Unless I'm mistaken, some of the more recent hypervelocity rail gun tests have used aluminium and plastic projectiles. A magnetic field that strong is obviously not produced by a fistful of AA batteries, the powersource is probably not very concealable...

 

[cordex]

M67,

I don't think the projectile has to be ferrous, as long as the magnetic field is strong enough. Unless I'm mistaken, some of the more recent hypervelocity rail gun tests have used aluminium and plastic projectiles.

A railgun projectile does not have to be ferrous.
A coilgun projectile does.

As far as I know, anyhow.

 

[Dionysusigma]

A handheld model is impractical if you use it to develop the concept. Maybe a larger, crew-served weapon would be better.

Also, one thing that everyone keeps running into is the power supply, whether it's for laser weapons, railguns, etc. The technology needs to be developed in those fields a little more before any of this goes much further. Maybe minituraization of nuclear reactors... get one down to the size of a backpack (Ghostbusters! ) and you'd have something.

 

[homeka45]

A magnetic gun, what an attractive concept, but that russian pistol it looks so repulsive
Sorry in advance but I couldn't resist.