Gays and Jews question

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Jim Peel,
We'll just take it as read that your rather red-faced and spitting screed about the Democrats is completely true and that the Republicans are their polar opposites. Since the Democrats are evil and mendacious and the Republicans are sweetness and light why do you think that the various ethnic and social minorities that vote as a bloc for the Democrats do so? It couldn't possibly be that the Democrats did a better job of representing those people in their own opinion (rather than yours), now could it? No, it must be that those people simply aren't intelligent enough to vote Republican.
 
Golgo-13

... red-faced and spitting screed ...
BWAAAAAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Since the Democrats are evil and mendacious and the Republicans are sweetness and light why do you think that the various ethnic and social minorities that vote as a bloc for the Democrats do so?
If I was asking for a question in answer to my questions, I would have asked "What question would you pose to me on the reasons the aforementioned groups continue to exhibit unfettered fealty to the Democratic party?" now, wouldn't I?

You are attempting to avoid having to actually answer my interrogatories by doing so. Anyway, in your vaunted opinion, I already have all of the answers -- so what are yours? Need I repost the questions again?

No, it must be that those people simply aren't intelligent enough to vote Republican.
Again, this was the opinion you gave that caused me to ask the questions I asked in the first place; and which, I must remind you, you have yet to answer. Need I repost the questions again?

Avoidance is futile. You will admonished.
 
"The Democratic party exists as the party of welfare; the party of Socialism; the party of the outstretched palm; the party of taxation; the party of increasingly larger government."

Agreed! And the GOP exists as the party of welfare, the party of Socialism, the party of the outstreched palm, the party of taxation, and the party of increasinly larger gov'ment. The difference is, with the GOP the welfare goes to mega corporations, the taxation falls on the poor, and different parts of the gov'ment get bigger.

I look at the bottom line, not the label. Clinton ended welfare as we know it. GW is overseeing the largest increase in the size and power of the federal gov'ment since WWII. He's created a whole new section--the Dept of Fatherland Security.

I dislike both parties intensely, and will vote for anyone who promises to make the federal government go away and not come back.
 
The end results are all that matter. Whatever GHWB said, he still took away post-ban high caps. That bill has had a much greater impact on my life and RKBA than Klinton's AWB, which frankly is so poorly written it has had no impact at keeping me from buying all the AK's and SKS's I want at low prices.

Maybe GW will let the AWB sunset, but if he signs its renewal as I suspect he will I will see no difference between him and Clinton, other than he made the fed. gov'ment a lot larger than Clinton ever did. Labels and rhetoric don't matter, in other words.
 
Cosmoline

Agreed! And the GOP exists as the party of welfare, the party of Socialism, the party of the outstreched palm, the party of taxation, and the party of increasinly larger gov'ment. The difference is, with the GOP the welfare goes to mega corporations, the taxation falls on the poor, and different parts of the gov'ment get bigger.
Where to begin, where to begin ...

The Democrats exist as the new Massahs and the Democratic party as the new plantation. They want to tax everyone who they consider "rich" to give those funds to those they consider "poor". They are buying the "poor" vote just as surely as if they were handing out a check with every vote cast.

The "poor" in America own cars, TVs, VCRs, computers, washers and dryers, and live in some kind of housing. The poor (not the "poor") in other nations have none of the above including the housing. They live in shantys built of corrugated sheet metal that every time there is a storm the death toll is mainly attributable to the sheet metal flying about.

Taxing the rich is a disincentive to them to expand their businesses, hire those "poor" people, and stifles their creativity. Giving the monies gleaned to the "poor" is a disincentive to them to attempt to better themselves as all they have to do is sit back and wait for the mailman.

How many jobs have you gotten from a "poor" guy?

The Ultimate Solution is here

But let's be fair, shall we? Let's do the following so everyone will be equal and the upper and lower classes will be eliminated forever.

Let's have legislation that everyone in America, from the oldest to the youngest, will receive $100,000 per year, tax free, every year, year-after-year. Anyone who earns over $100,000 per year would have all of those excess funds confiscated by a 100% tax. Anyone who earns anything less than $100,000 per year -- from $0 to $99,999 -- would be subsidized the entire amount lacking -- up to $100,000.

What could be fairer than that? Everyone has the same amount of money. Everyone has the same opportunities. Everyone can own what they really want. A just born child could look forward to having his/her first $100,000 on their first birthday. By college, they would have $1,800,000 for college. Everyone would drive a new car. Everyone would live in their own home. Everyone could aford prescriptions and medical care.

Wouldn't they?

OF COURSE NOT!

The earners would have no incentive to earn if they will get what those who sit on their a-- and produce nothing get. They could sit on their a-- and get the same thing.

Manufacturers would go bankrupt as the workforce pared off to their new Lazy-Boy anf watched TV all day. Management would see no benefit in making the company more profitable.

Stores would have no goods to sell as the manufacturers fell by the wayside. Those stores would close their doors as what's the use of investing their $100,000 in goods to sell if all they can earn back from those goods is their original investment?

And that kid with the $1.8 Million for college? S/he would have no incentive to go to college. What's the use? College used to be so you could earn a bigger paycheck and live better than those not so inclined. Now they don't have to go to college. They can just sit home and wait for the mailman like everyone else.

So when you cheer against the producers in the name of the "little guy", there are consequences to be met. When the takers of the largess exceed the producers of the largess you are finished.

There is a great quote by Alexander Tyler:
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising them the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy....

The world’s great civilizations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependence; from dependence back again into bondage.

-- Alexander Tyler, Scottish historian (c 1770)
We are somewhere between complacency and apathy now. Selfishness came with the Great Society.
 
Cosmoline

The end results are all that matter.
A far cry from what you posted.
Whatever GHWB said, he still took away post-ban high caps.
Imported post ban hi-caps as I recall.
Maybe GW will let the AWB sunset, but if he signs its renewal as I suspect he will I will see no difference between him and Clinton, other than he made the fed. gov'ment a lot larger than Clinton ever did.
I'll take a wait-and-see on that one. I believe he will crap on anything that is not the exact same law without revision. that way, he gets to say that he was for the ban but not the expanded version presented to him. He gets to smile out of both sides of his mouth that way.

As for the government expansion, I have a similar problem with that. It is too close to "Der Fatherland" for my liking. T.H.E.P.A.T.R.I.O.T.A.C.T. is the worst piece of slime written in this nation since the Alien and Sedition Act. Hopefully, it meets the same fate.
 
Jimpeel--I AGREE with you that the Democratic party is a disgusting joke. So what? So is the GOP. They always have been. Frankly the best thing that could happen to this country is to eliminate both major parties. The ORIGINAL GW--George Washington--warned us all to avoid faction. Instead, we revel in it. Or rather, a small percentage of partisan players revel in faction. The rest of us don't even bother voting half the time.
 
Cosmoline

The Dems exist as a party of division. The Republicans exist as a party of cowards.

One is bent on the destruction of the other. The other is bent on getting along with their destroyers.

One is bent on the socialization of America. The other is bent on going along if it means getting along.

One calls the other names like Homophobes, Nazis, Racists, etc. The other snivels "They're calling us names!"

The debate has come down to"

"Uh-huh!"

"Nuh-uh!"

"Uh-huh!"

"Nuh-uh!"

"Uh-huh!"

"Nuh-uh!"

We should revel in the fact that the revolution is coming. Hopefully, it comes in the form af a libertarian style party that will displace at least one of the current players.
 
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(Hutch) (my emphasis)
The Evil party has a power base of a bunch of non-mainstream grievance groups, be they ethnic minorities, females, LGBT's, eco-extremists, homeless advocates, ad nauseum. The Stupid/Gutless party is less dependent on the support of such groups.
Wow, I must be confused. :confused:

I thought Republicans were Evil, and Democrats were Stupid and Gutless. ;)
 
Jimpeel, you are either rich, honest, or both. You are definitely not a politician, though (and I mean that as the highest form of praise).

Great post!
 
Fruits, Flakes, Weirdos, Incorporated

The Democratic Party has become a sanctuary for the weird, warped and freakish because they are willing to sell their souls for a vote. They'll throw in with anybody, because as a party they have no core values whatsoever. They have become desensitized to right and wrong, for the sake of numerical advantage. Thanks to their darling Kommandante Klinton, the rest of the nation is becoming desensitized as well.

Gunners have fallen into this trap right along with everyone else. Just because something is no longer illegal, doesn't mean that it isn't still a crime against nature. This all-inclusive, politically-correct BS is for the birds. What's next? The "Shooter's Society of Not Quite Convicted Child Molestors"? NAMBLA is working their tails off to help us out there. Or maybe "The Sportsmen's Alliance of Streetcorner Pushers"? Gee, NORML is really breaking a sweat for us there, too. You see, all we gotta do is make all kinds of previously abhorrent conduct legal , and look at the numerical advantage we can gain!

Of course, our personal honor ceases to exist- and we eventually become a hollow, gutted shell of humanity, which collapses without a moral framework to hold it upright. Look what it's done for the Democratic Party.

Your religion is your own business, and I'll not sit back and watch any human harmed- but I'll also not throw in with any organization which compromises the moral fiber that made this a free country in the first place. I have fought this battle for 30 years without them, and I don't need them now. The fact is that people who continually throw their bent sexual preferences in your face are probably single-issue voters anyway. When it comes down to bare knuckles, they're gonna vote for any morally-bankrupt politician that supports their cause. Guess what the odds are that those politicians are supporters of your Second-Amendment rights?

About zero.

I have kept quiet on this issue long enough. I came here to discuss firearms. I am sick of hearing about abnormal sexual behavior, and why we should embrace it's practicioners on the remote possibility that one of them might vote for a pro-gun candidate or cause. Do whatever you want with my registration. If this is what the High Road is all about, then I don't fit here anyhow.
 
Tytler

Jimpeel:
I researched the Tytler quote a few weeks ago. The book some people claim it comes from doesn't exist, and reputable quote books have it listed as unverified. Its sentiments may be correct, but its inaccuracy harms the message.

-Morgan
 
CaesarI

I notice you consistently spell the name Tytler. Is the name Tyler or Tytler? I notice that some quotes attribute Tytler while others attribute Tyler.

Perhaps this is why there is such confusion:
The author was Alexander Fraser Tytler, a.k.a. Lord Woodhouselee, Scottish professor of history at Edinburgh University.
 
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Your religion is your own business

So is someone's sexuality(and yours is your own business as well).

What's next? The "Shooter's Society of Not Quite Convicted Child Molestors"?

Equating consenting adults with child molesters is despicable.

Gee, NORML is really breaking a sweat for us there, too.

Actually a lot of people on this board, me included, favor an end to the drug war.

I have fought this battle for 30 years without them, and I don't need them now.

And we've been losing for 30 years. If we're going to win we've got to address new poiltical realities. The reality is that gays are politically powerful, especially in liberal circles. If we can recruit them to our cause then we have gained a powerful ally. If we let personal prejudices get in the way of our fight for our freedom,then don't be surprised when we lose.

Edited for spelling
 
See post

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42460&perpage=25&pagenumber=2

Alexander Fraser Tytler was a real person who existed in the 18th century. He even fits the bill as the sort of person to make such a quote, only the evidence for it is lacking.

If you can find any Alexander Tyler's writing in the 18th century I'm all ears. I'd love for the quote to be verified, but "Respectfully Quoted" has prolly already done more research on it than we'll ever know, on account of the book was compiled by folks workin' for the Congressional research service.

-Morgan
 
CaesarI

If you can find any Alexander Tyler's writing in the 18th century I'm all ears.

There seems to be much confusion on the name, Tytler vs Tyler, but one thing that is agreed to in commonality is that the name of the author is also Lord Woodhouslee.

http://www.electricscotland.com/history/men/tytler_alexander.htm

TYTLER, ALEXANDER FRASER, usually styled Lord Woodhouselee, was born in Edinburgh, on the 15th of October, 1747.
There is, however, in this treatise no mention of "The decline and fall of the Athenian Empire".

There is a writeup at http://www.usmedicine.com/column.cfm?columnID=127&issueID=49 to which I wrote the author asking where one might access a copy of "The decline and fall of the Athenian Empire". Should be interesting to see the answer.
 
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CaesarI

During my searches for the works of Lord Woodhouselee I found the most extraordinary site on eighteenth century works

http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/18th/

By adding <alpha>.html to the url, you can see a page dedicated to just those names starting with that character. Example:

http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/18th/w.html

which is where Woodhouselee would be. The searches on authors also take you to those pages.

Definitely a keeper.
 
Well Sarge


How are gay people compromising honor?

And I have fought for the rights of good and honorable people for just about 30 years myself.

And it's opinions like the NAMBLA crack that gay people end up voting for people like the Clintons and run from the NRA types like myself.
 
Jim Peel,
I already answered your question in my original post. They vote Democratic because they perceive the Democrats as better representing their interests. Whether you agree with those intersts or not, or whether you consider the Democrats evil isn't germane. My rhetorical question about them not being smart enough to vote Republican may have you confused. Let me put it a different way. Tell me one thing you believe that you know is wrong, but you believe it anyway.
 
No confusion

The Library of Congress spells it Tytler, so does a very well put together, and researched biography on the man. Therefore I am confident his name is Tytler, and not Tyler.

I presume you read my earlier post and that is the source of the electric scotland link.

As far as collections of 18th century authors, as noted in the post I made a while back, the Library of Congress has NO entry for "Decline and Fall of the Athenian Republic" by this author. In general, if a book doesn't exist in the Library of Congress, it doesn't exist, or has been lost to modern society. Dr. Koenig, is sadly arguing for the truth with a bad weapon. Much like the

The "Universal History" book, is likely a later edition of the "Elements of general history, ancient and modern." I mentioned in my previous post.

Anyone wishing to verify the authenticity of this quote, may read through the book, I am going to place my faith in the Congressional research service which indicates the quote is unverified.... OK... so I started reading through it...

in regards the Spartans:
A communion of property, such as that we have mentioned, is totally adverse to the manners of a savage people, whose characteristic feature is predominant seflishness, and where the notions of the individual with respect to the property he possesses are obstinately repugnant to all communication.
- pgs 88-89
A paragraph or two later:
We discover not in barbarous tribes any thing analogous to the oath of government, which, at Sparta, was annually renewed between the kings and people. The king swore to rule according to the laws, and the people took a solemn oath, by the mouth of their magistrates, to be faithful and obedient, on that condition, to their government.
-pg 89 (italics HIS).

.... still reading/skimming.

-Morgan
 
Tytler Quote a Fake.

OK, I skimmed/read through sections I thought might contain the quote, most of which were very good. I then did a search for the terms "public treasury" and found it in 5 instances in the first volume, and 0 instances in the second volume. In none of these instances was the phrase used as part of this broader quote.

The closest to the quote:
There is no maxim more common among the political writers, nor any which is generally received with less hesitation, than this, that the constitution of every empire, like that of the human body, has necessarily its successive periods of growth, maturity, decline, and extinction. The fate of all the ancient nations whose annals are recorded in history has led to the adopting of this as an axiom, for which, independent of experience, it is not very easy to assign a reasonable foundation.
- Pg 470 Vol. 1 Book 4 Chapter 6

Finally, in the cover of the book, the name is spelled Tytler. Lest any confusion be still existent, his name is Tytler, not Tyler. And the quote in question does not appear in any part of Alexander Fraser Tytler's book.

I'm done with the matter. The quote's a fake, and I'm satisfied that it is a fake. Anyone wishing to prove otherwise had best provide a book, author, and chapter (preferably page number). For those wishing to do more work than I have already done, I suggest finding an earlier version of his history of the world, perhaps around 1801, that seems to me the most likely, though I doubt it exists even there. Tytler seems largely concerned with immorality being the downfall of civilizations.

-Morgan
 
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