Getting frustrated with my 1851

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eagle24

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This afternoon I rushed out to the range to try my new 51 Navy (uberti). Got a target up and had about an hour of good shooting light. Fired a cap on each cylinder and poured 20gr of fffg topped with a lubed pistol wad into each cylinder. Put the cylinder back in and rammed the first .375 ball down. It cut a good ring of lead off the ball, but when I retracted the loading ram, guess what??? The ball came with it. I tried another cylinder, same result. I was so frustrated, I loaded up and came home. Ever experienced this?
 
i was talking to a guy today on this same subject at the range today.
two things.

1. either your using the wrong size ball need a bigger ball. OR
2. week or not hardened steel. Meaning when you force a ball in it you forcing the chamber bigger. instead of jamming the ball in it.

I almost suspect the second. Which means you need to harden it up. Measure that cylinder first. each chamber. Then You need to heat it up. Heat it up very very good. Then drop it in cold water. Then dry it off. then heat it up again. and le it cool down on its own. That will harden it up. Re measure the cylinders to make sure they are still in spect. Then go try it out at the range.
 
Just a thought

Besides the bigger ball, do you have grease in the cup of the rammer that is possibly acting like a suction cup?

Never had anything like that happen.

The Doc is out now. :cool:
 
I had the same problem with my uberti '51...ya gotta go with .380 balls, then no problems. The will also tighten up you groups a lot. I got mine from Dixie gun works.

CH
 
2. week or not hardened steel. Meaning when you force a ball in it you forcing the chamber bigger. instead of jamming the ball in it.
Click to expand...

The ball is lead. The cylinder is steel. Even raw steel is many, many times harder and much less malleable than lead. I just don't see how the ball could stretch the cylinder.
 
It is not uncommon to have problems with .375 balls. Most of the Pietta .36 cal revolvers have chambers (not cylinders) bored too close to .375, like .372/.373. This is very likely the problem here. Unfortunately the solution is .380 balls, which are hard to find; none of the major manufacturers make them anymore. One is almost better off to buy the toys and roll your own.
 
dixie sells cast 380 balls and they work just fine. If you want to use your .375s, put them ont the bench and smack them with a mallet or screwdriver handle and fatten them up a bit. Then load with the flat end forward and they will swage into the chambers tight enough. Accuracy will be fine too.
 
dixie sells cast 380 balls and they work just fine. If you want to use your .375s, put them ont the bench and smack them with a mallet or screwdriver handle and fatten them up a bit. Then load with the flat end forward and they will swage into the chambers tight enough. Accuracy will be fine too.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll try fattening the .375's up and order .380's next go around. Everyone else thanks for the input also.
 
I read about all the problems you guys seem to have with your .36 cal pistols and it makes me glad I only have .44's

I can readily find .454 or .451 balls and then there are no troubles
 
Sometimes what are represented to be .375" balls (or whatever) turn out to be undersized. This shouldn't happen of course, but it does. If you have a dial caliper, or know someone that does (your friendly local gunsmith should) measure a ball or two to confirm what the diameter is. If it is truly running .375" your gun needs a larger size.

Now. The absolutely dumbest thing you can do is to heat up the cylinder and quench it in cold water or oil. You have no idea what steel alloy the cylinder is made of, and this kind of do-it-yourself heat treating may leave you with the metal annealed, and therefore softer, or you may inbrittle it. Neither condition is good. There is no way you can ram a lead ball into the chamber and expand the chamber. The chamber will either shave lead off of the ball, or you won’t be able to get it seated at all. If the idiot at the range wants to ruin his gun that’s his business, although I wouldn’t want to stand too close to him while he’s shooting it. :scrutiny: :eek:
 
The chamber will either shave lead off of the ball, or you won’t be able to get it seated at all
Click to expand...

Kind of off topic but I could swear I read somewhere that originally the chambers were conical in shape. If this was the case then the balls back then never sheared any lead when being seated. If this was the case a very specific powder charge would be needed to have the ball seat properly.
 
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I read about all the problems you guys seem to have with your .36 cal pistols and it makes me glad I only have .44's
Click to expand...

I like .44s but for some reason I have more .36s. I can't say I have more problems with one over the other, or that I like shooting one more than the other. It's like the candy bar commercial - sometimes I feel like a nut, sometimes I don't.
Variety is the spice of life.

As far as the balls pulling out of the chamber - it happens sometimes with my Walker but I think that has alot to do with the shape of the rammer tip creating suction.
 
Wouldn't it be something if Dixie is deliberately boring out the cylinder chambers, just so you can buy their .380 balls...:neener:

I have two Pietta 1851's from Cabelas and have no problem with the .375 balls..... maybe the uberti's are chamfered? if so maybe the ball is not seating right....:what:
 
Ubertis, whether from dixie or other wise, have larger chambers than Pietta. I've found that speer 375 balls are actually round and work very well. the Hornadys are lopsided with some aspects under sized for the Uberti chambers and sometimes come out stuck to the seating ram. I really like .380 balls and cast my own or get them from dixie or any other source I can find.
 
.375 Hornday swaged balls work perfectly in my new production Pietta 1851 - go figure. No sprue either which is a nice feature of these balls.

I will probably go with .380 though once I get my bullet casting line setup.

PS - you could flatten a ball somewhat so you shave a bigger ring of lead, tap it out from the rear of the chamber, and measure the diameter of the chamber by the ball diameter.
 
Not a good idea to attempt a cylinder re-hardening in any way.
If you are shooting anything but commercial swaged balls, be sure that they are of pure lead.
Zeke
 
the first thought that went through my head was to chamfer/polish the front edge of the cylinder, so that instead of cutting the lead, it would compress it and hold it in place. if it is cutting the lead from around the bullet, it is sizing it to the diameter of the cylinder. if you go to a larger ball, you will get a longer part of it in contact with the cylinder. that may be enough to hold it in place. but if you compress the ball as it goes in, then there would be more pressure against the wall. i am no gunsmith, or expert. it's just what poped into my head. good luck!
 
I too find it a little hard to believe that soft lead is deforming the cylinder. If so, I'd hate to see what happens to it when you light 25 grains of black powder under the ball.
 
I too find it a little hard to believe that soft lead is deforming the cylinder. If so, I'd hate to see what happens to it when you light 25 grains of black powder under the ball.
Click to expand...

I agree. These are Hornady swaged balls I was using. I don't think there is any way they were deforming the cylinder. A .380 ball may be the answer and work just fine. I was also thinking the cylinder chamber walls might not be parrallel. In other words, it might be tapered a little bit for some reason. I dunno???? I was already rushing to get out to the range, so when I had problems I just said to heck with it for the day.
 
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