Getting my offhand scores up

[atek3]

I've read tubb's book on highpower, I have a sweet rifle, lots of practice, etc. but my offhand is the pits. My sitting and prone are pretty good, generally i'm in the low nineties sitting, mid nineties rapid prone, and high nineties slow prone, but in offhand my best EVER was 180/200 mostly it hovers in the 160's. I understand about NPA and finding a good position, but when I'm standing, the muzzle is waving all over the place. My good shots, come when I pull the trigger just as it is wobbling through the Bull. However if i'm a 1/16th of a second early or late I just got a 7 or 8 .

Any suggestions?

atek3

 

[Werewolf]

Exercise your forearms, triceps and biceps, shoulder muscles and chest muscles. In fact exercise your whole upper body. In my experience increased upper body strength especially in the arms equals the ability to achieve a steadier aim while standing.

Then again there is IMO an inherent maximum ability that each shooter has to maintain a steady hold regardless of strength. You may be there already...

 

[atek3]

god I hope not. I'm only 23 and have been shooting for 3 years.

atek3

PS I am a weakling though, some exercise would significantly help.

 

[ACP230]

One of the best things you can do is dry fire from offhand.

Check the gun and mag three or four times to be sure they are empty. Put all ammo somewhere else. Apply a small dot to the wall, preferable a basement wall IMO, and dry fire. If you are shooting 20 rounds in offhand in matches, shoot 30 or more in practice. If that makes you too tired then start with 10 or 15 and work up. Call your shots and don't accept bad ones. I did this three or four days a week all winter and my offhand improved that spring.

Dry firing is exercise. It is also specific to what you are trying to do.

For general arm strength you might try a punching bag. I found it increased my heart rate more quickly than anything else I tried.
I also use dumbells, but the bag is more fun.

HTH.

 

[Edward429451]

I seem to do better offhand when I concentrate more on trigger squeeze than precise sight alignment. There's a little bit more fudge factor in sight alignment than there is in trigger squeeze. Sights can be solidly lined up and if you jerk the trigger, might not even hit the paper. If you concentrate on trigger squeeze enough to be able to will the shot off at any desired moment, the sights can be waving within reasonably close proximity to the bullseye and it'll be in there. Or at least for me. YMMV.

Who was it that said 80% of marksmanship is trigger control?

Brian Enos's book helped me alot too. He says you have to look through the shot. If you cant call your shots, then your shutting your vision off at the crucial moment and might as well shoot blindfolded. Good book.

Practice will let you know how much sight waver you can get away with and still make good shots.

 

[atek3]

Last weekend I had problems shooting prone. There was no pit service and I couldn't see my 22 cal holes at 200 yds making feedback nonexistent.

atek3

 

[Jon Coppenbarger]

You need to spend a little time with a good master or highmaster that hasa decent ideal on what will help you.
It is impossible to help someone out over the internet without seeing what they are doing.
I know this is not helping but it all comes done to about 3 things.
#1 your position is not as correct as it should be
#2 your NPA is not correct from shot to shot and could be caused by the above
#3 you have to tell youself never take a shot thats not at least a 10.
If you only accept X's then you can live with a 10, If you accept a 10 then like me you live with 9's and it goes down from there.

Only 3 years shooting off hand thats not bad as I think only a few things could get you consitantly in the 180's and above.
If you are shooting master or highmaster scores at the other positions then it should only take you a little more constructive work to get better in your off hand

off hand is like sitting it takes a few years of tweaking to get it more consitant.
High power shooter are very helpfull so please ask someone to help you out as it might just be something you are missing thats simple.
Remember in off hand you have to build that position up the same way everytime and right everytime and if those sights are not rock solid then you are missing a few things.
I find my npa is usually a little on the right side and either creep it in from about the edge of the 9 ring into the 10 and break the shot and if my Npa is correct then it stays rock solid straight up the middle all the way threw the recoil.
Sorry wish I could be there to see you shoot.
Jon

 

[hipwr223]

Think aggressive. Firm squeeze on the grip. Like a tight handshake. Pull the rifle into your shoulder a little. Back when the M1A and conventional bolt guns were the rule that was verboten, but the AR needs to be man handled a little. Not muscled, just kinda tightend up a little.

Don't shoot on the move. Figure a way to get your sights to settle even if for only a fraction of a second. That is your "window" to shoot. If it is not still for that instant, do not break the shot. You will find that if you get a little firmer on the rifle like described above that you will have a little more control over your wobble area. At least for a small period of time.

Your hold should start out loose, slowly wobble less, the sights should hold still in your Natural Point of Aim(for a small period of time), and you should make a quick, controlled jerk if the trigger that does not disturb your sight alignment. At the moment the shot goes off, take a "snap shot" in your mind of how your sights looked on the target, that is your call. Be honest with your performance, and only accept centered holds.

John

 

[Freedomv]

I have found that pulling my left elbow towards my belly button and lifting my right elbow up to a near horizontal plane help me control the extreme spread of my shots.
What rifle are you shooting?
I have a great deal of experience with the M-1 and M-14 but realitivily none with any other rifles.
One thing to keep in mind is that you do not need to be muscular to shoot off hand as you are not doing anything more than standing there providing a good platform for the rifle to be fired from. It is a good idea to be in top physical condition as others have allready stated.
If you find yourself fatigued from off hand shooting I think you are forcing your shots and muscling (sp) the rifle into position for the shot. This would be evident if you start out with good hits (10s & Xs )and finish with 7s & 8s.
I would suggest trying some variations of your shooting position while dry
firing and see what affects they have on your wobbleing problem.
Lets us know what helps/works for you.
Good shooting.
Vern

 

[atek3]

I'm shooting a rebarrelled tikka master sporter set up by mac tilton. it is heavy and I am weak, and there definatly have been matches where my first ten were all 10's and a nine, and my last ten were garbage. Maybe I'll 'hit the weights"

atek3

 

[30Cal]

Dryfire. If you can get in 20-30 minutes twice a week, you'll see a noticible improvement in short order. I generally do my dryfiring early in the morning before I go to work. Typically, I use a dot that's quite a bit smaller than the target would appear and I usually plot my calls about half the time. Make sure that you are ruthlessly critical of your natural point of aim and do not settle for a bad shot.

I shoot 3-5 points higher if I get up ten minutes early on the day of the match and do some dryfiring before I hop in the car.

Ty

 

[hipwr223]

Remember that the position itself should require little to no muscle control. When we assume a good off hand position we should support the rifle with our frame(bone support). When I refer to muscling the rifle in off hand, I am really refering to finess rather than support. Do not get it in your head that you have to be strong to shoot good offhand scores. I have seen way too many slightly built women shoot heavy smallbore rifles with great results off hand.

John

 

[Jon Coppenbarger]

I was going to say that also John and you are right as we have two 13 year old females and one can not way more than 85 #'s and the other maybe 95 to 100#'s both are very thin.

they shoot in the mid 180's to low 190's most every time unless its very windy and then it hurts them.
Position, position , position.

Jon

 

[atek3]

Thanks for the advice. I just spent 30 min reading tubb's highpower rifle and dry firing. I felt a noticable improvement, as sometimes I'd mount the rifle, breathing normally, exhale half way, and the sight would hover for maybe a fifth of a second in the virtual ten ring of the dot on my wall, and I'd let the shot go and call it a ten. I wish I could shoot the highpower match this weekend to see if I'm doing it right.
Two things though: My left arm is basically vertical supporting the rifle, my tricep is basically resting on my rib, yet it still got tired after twenty minutes of dry practice. Any suggestions?

thanks,
atek3

 

[hipwr223]

get your center of gravity back a little farther. It may help to arch your back just a little. Don't strain to do it, just try and bring the balance of the rifle more in towards your center.

John

 

[ACP230]

Twenty minutes can be a long time to dry fire.
Even 10 or 12 minute sessions can help. Longer sessions could lead to less than precise practice.
Practicing twice a day, for 10 minutes, might be better than one 20 minute session.

 

[craig101]

one thing that seems to help me, is that when i get the rifle (AR) into my arm and start to exhale, the sights are at the top of the black and then i start to slowly exhale/combined with gravity, the sights cross over the x-ring and that is when i break the trigger. i use a two-stage trigger and i feel that helps a lot as when i feel it is time to break the trigger, it only takes a little pressure.