westerngrizzly
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- Feb 3, 2010
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The interesting thing about the smallbore/international jackets is that they are REALLY stiff. When I got my pants I could stand them up on their own.
Matt
Matt
Improving Highpower Score
- Thread starter Pat M
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Standing is all about fundamentals, patience, and discipline. I'm a smallbore shooter at heart who is venturing into high power and completely agree that high power shooters make average SB shooters. HP shooter arrive at a SB match and we say this should be interesting. SB shooter go to a HP match and the HP folks say "uh oh".
You should use smallbore to train for HP since you have to have better fundamentals to find success. Air rifle would be even better since you can do it at home, and air stresses fundamentals even more then SB.
First, as has been said, a relaxed position is required. As for putting your elbow on your hip, that will depend on your build. If you can do it and still aim in the right direction, then go for it. If you have to push your hip out to do it, don't. I'm 6-2 and can't do it, so I'm very upright with my elbow on my rib cage. Experiment with elbow placement (try to avoid moving it towards your chest). You'll know you have a good position when you can stay in position for a minute or so with no discomfort.
Next is Natural Point of Aim (NPA). I didn't see anyone mention this. Start training without a target. Learn to get in position the exact same way before you dry fire a single shot. To give you an idea on how accurate you can be with this, I can, with my SB rifle, get in position with the sights blocked out and put a shot in the black. That took a ton of practice, but there's a goal for you. I'm still working to be that accurate in HP.
After that is shot selection. Learn to reject shots. I don't seem HP shooters doing this too often. Picking the rifle up and then seeing the shot is not there is NOT A BAD THING. Learn to reject a lot of shots now. The minute you hear he thought in your head "I can still get a 10 out of this", stop and put it down. This will get you to recognize the good shots and learn how to repeat them.
Lastly is training. Not practice, training. Training has goals and structure. a few drills you can use:
Groups - your best friend. Could be anywhere between 3 and 10 shots. Don't look at the target for the whole group. If you need to move the sights, do it between groups. I suggest starting with 5 shot groups.
NPA Training - two ways to do this. First is on a single bull. Shoot a shot, get out of position, get back in position, try to double the shot. Second way, on a multi-bull target, choose a bull at random and fire a 3 shot group at it (remember no looking). Then choose another random bull, another 3 shot group. If the second group is off to a certain direction, say the bull you just came from, you know you need to be more disciplined in your NPA.
Strings of 10s - You can also do this with 9s, 8s, etc based on your skill level. Simply put a target up and see how many you can get in a row. Challenge yourself to up your record. Once you master the 8s, go to the 9s.
Number of 10s - Choose a number of 10s you have to shoot (10 is a good number), and record the number of shots it takes you to get there. Try to beat your record.
Endurance Training - learn to shoot longer than you need to. I've trained to shooting 60 straight shots offhand in an air rifle match, so the 10 I've had to do in HP don't even phase me. A well built standing position should actually shoot BETTER as you tire out since you lose the energy to muscle the gun around.
If you would like a simple phrase, here's mine: "Shoot 10s". When you realize the greater meaning in that, you'll have arrived.
You should use smallbore to train for HP since you have to have better fundamentals to find success. Air rifle would be even better since you can do it at home, and air stresses fundamentals even more then SB.
First, as has been said, a relaxed position is required. As for putting your elbow on your hip, that will depend on your build. If you can do it and still aim in the right direction, then go for it. If you have to push your hip out to do it, don't. I'm 6-2 and can't do it, so I'm very upright with my elbow on my rib cage. Experiment with elbow placement (try to avoid moving it towards your chest). You'll know you have a good position when you can stay in position for a minute or so with no discomfort.
Next is Natural Point of Aim (NPA). I didn't see anyone mention this. Start training without a target. Learn to get in position the exact same way before you dry fire a single shot. To give you an idea on how accurate you can be with this, I can, with my SB rifle, get in position with the sights blocked out and put a shot in the black. That took a ton of practice, but there's a goal for you. I'm still working to be that accurate in HP.
After that is shot selection. Learn to reject shots. I don't seem HP shooters doing this too often. Picking the rifle up and then seeing the shot is not there is NOT A BAD THING. Learn to reject a lot of shots now. The minute you hear he thought in your head "I can still get a 10 out of this", stop and put it down. This will get you to recognize the good shots and learn how to repeat them.
Lastly is training. Not practice, training. Training has goals and structure. a few drills you can use:
Groups - your best friend. Could be anywhere between 3 and 10 shots. Don't look at the target for the whole group. If you need to move the sights, do it between groups. I suggest starting with 5 shot groups.
NPA Training - two ways to do this. First is on a single bull. Shoot a shot, get out of position, get back in position, try to double the shot. Second way, on a multi-bull target, choose a bull at random and fire a 3 shot group at it (remember no looking). Then choose another random bull, another 3 shot group. If the second group is off to a certain direction, say the bull you just came from, you know you need to be more disciplined in your NPA.
Strings of 10s - You can also do this with 9s, 8s, etc based on your skill level. Simply put a target up and see how many you can get in a row. Challenge yourself to up your record. Once you master the 8s, go to the 9s.
Number of 10s - Choose a number of 10s you have to shoot (10 is a good number), and record the number of shots it takes you to get there. Try to beat your record.
Endurance Training - learn to shoot longer than you need to. I've trained to shooting 60 straight shots offhand in an air rifle match, so the 10 I've had to do in HP don't even phase me. A well built standing position should actually shoot BETTER as you tire out since you lose the energy to muscle the gun around.
If you would like a simple phrase, here's mine: "Shoot 10s". When you realize the greater meaning in that, you'll have arrived.
Howard Roark
Member
I like that. Burl Branham (If you don't know who he is, Google) had a plaque in his office that read: Practice doesn't make perfect, Perfect practice makes perfect.
There is so much good information in this thread! Soupy, you have a great training system; I'm taking notes and will be employing these before I get back into intercollegiate shooting. A big thanks to all who contributed from a humble junior shooter.
-Travis
-Travis
Lovesbeer99
Member
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2006
- Messages
- 1,413
Soupy44 - no need to bash other disiplines. It reminds me of how skeet shooter think they are inherently better than trap shooters. There's just no need for it.
Lovesbeer,
I'm sorry if you felt insulted by my comments, but in my experience, the fundamentals of smallbore shooters on the average are better than the fundamentals of highpower shooters. The highpower shooters I know that have become good smallbore shooters had a much harder time than adjusting to smallbore than the smallbore shooters I know adjusted to highpower.
And to make me even more your favorite person, I have to disagree, in principle, but not function, with your quote "If you have a good shot take it. Dont blow a good shot trying to make a perfect shot".
For the purposes of this thread, the idea has a purpose for training. When I was coaching the local junior program, I had beginners doing something like this, taking shots that might not be optimal. I taught this so they could learn what different shots looked like. Once they could keep all their shots in the black, I'd have them start rejecting a lot of shots. I wanted them to learn what a good shot looked like, and train themselves to put the rifle down when something wasn't right.
Finally, I would put in training sessions where they could not reject any shots. This is where settling for a good shot holds you back. At some point, you need to expect to shoot an X with every shot.
This is where the last part of my previous post comes into play. We all know what a good X looks like. When we fire a shot that does not look like that, we have no one to blame but ourselves. Train yourself to shoot one X. Learn what it takes for you to accomplish that, and then train yourself to only do that and nothing else. Then repeat.
I'm sorry if you felt insulted by my comments, but in my experience, the fundamentals of smallbore shooters on the average are better than the fundamentals of highpower shooters. The highpower shooters I know that have become good smallbore shooters had a much harder time than adjusting to smallbore than the smallbore shooters I know adjusted to highpower.
And to make me even more your favorite person, I have to disagree, in principle, but not function, with your quote "If you have a good shot take it. Dont blow a good shot trying to make a perfect shot".
For the purposes of this thread, the idea has a purpose for training. When I was coaching the local junior program, I had beginners doing something like this, taking shots that might not be optimal. I taught this so they could learn what different shots looked like. Once they could keep all their shots in the black, I'd have them start rejecting a lot of shots. I wanted them to learn what a good shot looked like, and train themselves to put the rifle down when something wasn't right.
Finally, I would put in training sessions where they could not reject any shots. This is where settling for a good shot holds you back. At some point, you need to expect to shoot an X with every shot.
This is where the last part of my previous post comes into play. We all know what a good X looks like. When we fire a shot that does not look like that, we have no one to blame but ourselves. Train yourself to shoot one X. Learn what it takes for you to accomplish that, and then train yourself to only do that and nothing else. Then repeat.
bamawrx
Member
I have learned TONS from books. It gives you a way to improve on your sport while you are relaxing at home, or can't get to the range. I have the book by randolph constantine. http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Highpower-Competition-Randolph-Constantine/dp/1931220050
I have read that book a couple times now and every time I re-read a section I learn something else.
I also have the book by Jim Owens http://www.jarheadtop.com/Books.htm
I would ignore any negative posts about books. This sport is very mental and one way to access some of that mental power is to read. I also fire imaginary groups when laying down to sleep. I will hold my breath and visualize the front sight and target and breaking the shot. Funny, I only shoot X's when I visualize LOL. The mind is a very powerful thing and your standing scores will improve when you are on autopilot.
Also, don't force a shot. That was a hard one for me to learn, but if your wobble gets out of hand just put the rifle down. Start over fresh, and you will be amazed how many points that saves you. You are trying to train your mind to look for the correct sight picture and let the round go with no flinch.
Highpower is a blast. Good luck.
I have read that book a couple times now and every time I re-read a section I learn something else.
I also have the book by Jim Owens http://www.jarheadtop.com/Books.htm
I would ignore any negative posts about books. This sport is very mental and one way to access some of that mental power is to read. I also fire imaginary groups when laying down to sleep. I will hold my breath and visualize the front sight and target and breaking the shot. Funny, I only shoot X's when I visualize LOL. The mind is a very powerful thing and your standing scores will improve when you are on autopilot.
Also, don't force a shot. That was a hard one for me to learn, but if your wobble gets out of hand just put the rifle down. Start over fresh, and you will be amazed how many points that saves you. You are trying to train your mind to look for the correct sight picture and let the round go with no flinch.
Highpower is a blast. Good luck.
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
Forgive me for resurrecting a thread, but I've been preparing for the Atlantic Fleet match at Quantico and came across something to share.
As hard as it is for a former Marine to admit it, the tips here from the Army Team are extremely worthwhile reading.
http://www.odcmp.com/Competitions/USAMU/ShootingTips.htm
The comment by bamawrx is a great point -
You'll notice the very first topic in the tips addresses the mental aspect of the game.
Anyway, if you're still looking for advice Pat, I hope those readings help.
As hard as it is for a former Marine to admit it, the tips here from the Army Team are extremely worthwhile reading.
http://www.odcmp.com/Competitions/USAMU/ShootingTips.htm
The comment by bamawrx is a great point -
bamawrx said:
You'll notice the very first topic in the tips addresses the mental aspect of the game.
Anyway, if you're still looking for advice Pat, I hope those readings help.
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