Getting ready for my first reload... primers question

[Virginia Jim]

Ok, I’ll bite. What’s the Macarena test?

Yes, Plunk.... but do you know the Macarena test?

 

[ZeviB]

Ok, I’ll bite. What’s the Macarena test?

You're braver than me; I was afraid to ask...

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

When I'm loading with a new recipe I only make a magazine worth. Then I'll test fire that batch and see if the gun functions correctly. Then I'll inspect the brass for any signs of over pressure. Finally, I'll put a few over the chrono and see if the velocity matches the recipe.
Skip any of those steps and you may end up wasting some valuable components.....or worse.

Yup. Revolver, auto, or single-shot, ALWAYS run a small batch and test fire before making any quantity. A chrono helps a lot in finding the "sweet spot" of a load but it's not an absolute necessity just starting out. If a same weight and profile factory load shoots to zero and your load shoots to the same zero (within the bounds of your ability to hold a zero) at the maximum range you typically shoot with the same gun in the same conditions on the same range, then it's probably close to the correct velocity. But a chronograph is a good thing to have.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Ok, I’ll bite. What’s the Macarena test?

 

[griff383]

Lots of great advice here.

Checking oal is easy to do with dummy rounds, case and bullet only. You can hand cycle in semi autos from the mag for feeding.

Once you're confident your oal is good you can do small batches. For most handgun stuff I determine the lowest charge and start there. Depending on the powder/bullet combo I'll go up 0.2 - 0.3 grains at a time loading 5-10 rounds of each until I get to published max.

At the range I start at the bottom (lowest charge) and fire a few to inspect casings. I keep doing that until I get to max or see signs of pressure. Then, once I'm confident which ones are safe to fire, I look for accuracy by firing the remainder.

I take notes when doing this so I have references when I get home and log the results. Then I write up recipe cards to put with each batch of 100 so I can go back to the test log if need be at a later time.

One thing I learned a long time ago was to label each round with a sharpie when testing. I'd see guys at the range with their ammo boxes and paper notes, the rounds would be placed very specifically in the ammo box according to their charge weight. That's all fine and dandy until you spill the ammo box and then have no idea what's what. For my method, I mostly use black and red color. Lowest charge gets a black "/" across the bottom of the cartridge (over the primer basically) next charge gets a "X" and next a "O". Then I use the same markings but with red to indicate that I am nearing or at max.

The attached pic shows what I mean, this was a test I just did with 10mm to see if there was any difference between WLP and CCI 300 primers with all else being equal.

 

[Dudedog]

I strongly recommend you send back the powder cop die, and purchase the RCBS Lock out die. The powder cop die is no better than a glance in the case to insure there’s powder. The lock out die will lock the press if there’s an issue. Even with the lock out die, visually inspect the case to make sure there’s a powder charge before placing the bullet on the case mouth.

I agree, I bought the powder cop to begin with, it requires you to watch it, I much prefer the RCBS lockout die. Money well spent IMO, of course if it never locks you may wonder if it was money well spent or not.

 

[JD Fla1]

Welcome Aboard !

Having read the thread, here's where I see your areas of greatest concern...

1) Wet tumbling with primers in place. Any moisture left in the primer cavity will kill your reloads. You've short-cut the process, so now you'll need to take extra steps to add the needed assurance. That could include baking the cases, or simply going back and removing the primers, or other similar extra steps. But they must be done. Reloading is all about "being 100% sure".

2) OAL. The OAL listed in the recipe is NOT a recommendation. Berry RN bullets are so slim that they can be used at almost any length; Berry conical bullets often force an OAL much shorter than the one listed in the recipe. OAL is determined solely by how your bullet interfaces with your barrel. This means cartridge gauges and case gauges won't help you much, you MUST use the barrel. "One size fits all" simply does not work in auto pistol reloading. This is because no 2 barrels are alike and no 2 bullets are alike. So the combination of bullet-to-barrel always results in a unique OAL.

3) Powder level. There is no substitute for looking inside each case before placing the bullet. If you can't see, then the answer is not a Powder Cop... the answer is more light ! Get a press light from KMS Squared.

4) Tendancy. The natural human tendency will be to make 50 or 100, but please don't. If you begin loading at the Starting Load, then you'll quickly see you may need to unload 48 or 98 !! Pulling bullets is not nearly as fun as pulling triggers.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the link for the light. Been looking for a solution for my ABLPro

 

[Harriw]

I have a KMS Square light (UFO light) for my LNL AP as well. What a HUGE improvement over the LED flashlight I had cobbled together previously.

I bought a powder cop too, and it sits in a drawer and never gets used now that I have plenty of light. I can easily see into even .223 cases now. At least for me, the powder cop had a bad habit of getting powder everywhere - I much prefer personally looking inside every charged case.

And no, you don't have to lube cases with carbide dies for pistol cartridges like 9mm. But once you do, you'll never NOT lube them again Find a can of hornady one-shot case lube. Put your cases in a zip lock and give them a quick spray, shuffle them around a bit, repeat once more, dump them out to dry for a few minutes, and you're good to go. Makes a world of difference in how smoothly a progressive press runs, and will produce much more consistent COALs.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Ok, I’ll bite. What’s the Macarena test?

You're braver than me; I was afraid to ask...

you guys must be very new at reloading ammo

 

[CMB]

Maybe I missed it but how are you measuring your powder? Are you double checking your dropped charge with some type of scale? I usually double check the first couple until the charge becomes constant then just spot check every 10. If you are using a powder dispenser that works based on volume any vibration in the table will cause the powder to settle and change your charge. I'm sure I will get flamed for this but, if your able, get yourself an digital scale (or any type) from ebay just to double check things. There is a good video in the tube that compares 25 different scales. They can be easily had for under 30 dollars.

I too started with 9mm - such a great hobby!

Cheers-

 

[kalielkslayer]

My comments will probably be repetitive from what others said.

I lube prior to sizing/decapping, machine just runs smoother. But then I wet tumble to get the lube off and the primer pockets clean. Cases dry quicker without a primer in it.

I recently started using a progressive press after 30 years on a single stage, and made some mistakes. Once I threw the lever 2Xs without indexing the shell holders. Got a double charge. Fortunately, I was using a powder that would overflow the case with a double charge and caught it immediately.

I pulled a powder charge to weigh it (I do 1 every 10-20 once I have everything set up) and didn’t funnel the charge back into case. This caused a squib round.

I always build a dummy round or 2 (no primer or powder). Started doing this 30 years ago as I measured max OAL in hunting rifles. For hunting rifles, I would save the dummy round with my die set for future use. For pistol I do the dummy round but after I get my OAL, and do a function test, I toss it so it doesn’t end up in a magazine. I also test crimp strength with the dummy round. I’ll tap it 2-3 times with a lightweight brass hammer, then measure it. When I’m doing my function test with 5 rounds I’ll load a 6th and not fire it, but measure it as well to see if I got any setback.

For me, a progressive can be very smooth once you get everything set up right and a nice rythem going. But I find I’ll run way more loads of a certain caliber than I need because I’m avoiding changing everything for the next caliber, but that’s just me.

Start slow “crawl, walk, run” and reference your manuals and you’ll be fine.

 

[ZeviB]

... I'm sure I will get flamed for this ...

... just kidding! - Flamed? Never from me. In my view, any suggestion that is given with a genuine intention to help deserves thanks. So far the advices given to me here, as well as other posts I have seen here are nothing but candid and helpful.

To your point - I have a digital scale, I cycled the power drop 10 times (dropped the powder right back) before actually taking a weight measurement. Once I got the device to drop the desired weight, I measured each and every one of the 10 rounds I made.

Thanks you!

 

[CMB]

Sounds like you are well on your way! Now just make sure you make the mortgage payment and other essential bills before checking out the "where are components available" thread and you will be fine.


Keep us posted on the progress.

Cheers

 

[ZeviB]

Many, many, MANY thanks to all of you who took the time and patiently provided such helpful pointers, advice and other suggestions. You helped making my first reloading venture safer and more self-assured!
My first 10 home-made rounds seem to have been a success . For a (rough) comparison I used two targets at 12 yards. The image below is pretty much self explanatory.
Looks like I'm an equally-bad shot whether it's commercial or home-made ammo. The reloading was as good as it could be; shooting on the other hand - not so...


One thing I was a bit concerned with after the reloading was how the case looked where the bullet is seated (see image below). It looks a bit bulged, but I could not feel it. The neck size (tension?) was at 0.376", and OAL 1.156". The "plunk & spin" test looked and felt good. I did use Lee's 4-dies carbide set. Was crimping incorrect here?



Anyhow, it was an incredible day of first reload and testing; the fact that I came home with all appendages intact was definitely a bonus !
(and yes - I DID do the Macarena upon my return )

Cheers, Zevi

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

(and yes - I DID do the Macarena upon my return )

Excellent!

The "bulge" remains a mystery to me, too. I've been reloading since I was a kid (long ago in a galaxy far, far away...) and sometimes its visible, sometimes its not. Sometimes a micrometer says it's an optical illusion and sometimes it says there's a step. Anyway, congrats on not earning a new nickname like, "stubby" or "one-eye."

 

[Mark_Mark]

... just kidding! - Flamed? Never from me. In my view, any suggestion that is given with a genuine intention to help deserves thanks. So far the advices given to me here, as well as other posts I have seen here are nothing but candid and helpful.

To your point - I have a digital scale, I cycled the power drop 10 times (dropped the powder right back) before actually taking a weight measurement. Once I got the device to drop the desired weight, I measured each and every one of the 10 rounds I made.

Thanks you!

that’s how I do my powder measures, about every 10 rounds. cycling 10 times is over kill. It’s like those dudes at the range that check their chamber for clear 10 times... cuz they don’t trust the 1st 2 times.

Make dummy round! it’s the best way to function gun & mag. Then test rounds from dummy test. Then Chrono for load vs. accuracy.

and don’t

Many, many, MANY thanks to all of you who took the time and patiently provided such helpful pointers, advice and other suggestions. You helped making my first reloading venture safer and more self-assured!
My first 10 home-made rounds seem to have been a success . For a (rough) comparison I used two targets at 12 yards. The image below is pretty much self explanatory.
Looks like I'm an equally-bad shot whether it's commercial or home-made ammo. The reloading was as good as it could be; shooting on the other hand - not so...

View attachment 984463
One thing I was a bit concerned with after the reloading was how the case looked where the bullet is seated (see image below). It looks a bit bulged, but I could not feel it. The neck size (tension?) was at 0.376", and OAL 1.156". The "plunk & spin" test looked and felt good. I did use Lee's 4-dies carbide set. Was crimping incorrect here?

View attachment 984446

Anyhow, it was an incredible day of first reload and testing; the fact that I came home with all appendages intact was definitely a bonus !
(and yes - I DID do the Macarena upon my return )

Cheers, Zevi

are you using the King of Crimp Dies? The Lee FCD??? get 2!

 

[ballman6711]

Nice job on your first reloads!

Regarding the bulge, if it's only on one side you've seated the bullet slightly crooked. If it's all the way around you've got good tension on the bullet.

What I do is hold the finished round under a light so I can see the reflection of the bulge (the shiny line) and spin it in my hand. If the shiny line is all the way around then it's good to go.

chris

 

[CMB]

Nice job! Yea, I get the bulge spots too sometimes. I've double checked my flair and tried to seat the bullet as straight as possible and sometimes it just happens. The jury is still out on its impact on accuracy. Some say the barrel straightens things out others disagree. Testing accuracy can be tough with out a rest. I just have to keep telling to continue to aim at the same spot on the target even though the bullets are going elsewhere.

There are a few advanced techniques regarding adjusting the COL which also requires charge adjustment in search of accuracy, the circle continues.

Again- nice job and thanks for the update!

 

[TooManyToys]

Did you say which press you are using?
Although lube isn't required, just a little bit of lube makes resizing go smoother/easier.
Can't go wrong with AA5.
Using a bench rest or sand bags helps consistency when testing & comparing new loads.
Yes, several loading books are a good idea.
Personally I like Lyman #49 for the best all around info. Lyman's Cast Bullet book another good resource if your shooting cast & coated bullets.

 

[BOISE BADWOLF]

I prefer accurate#5 for 9mm, its my go to. I like #7 to, and I use # 9 for my .44 mag and boy howdy...good stuff! Accurate powder doesn't always get the love it deserves.

 

[ZeviB]

Did you say which press you are using?

I'm using the Hornady Lock-N-Load AP

Although lube isn't required, just a little bit of lube makes resizing go smoother/easier.

Yeah, several others suggested that too - I'll try.

Personally I like Lyman #49 for the best all around info.

I have the 50th edition and really like it too!

Thanks!

 

[Walkalong]

cycling 10 times is over kill

Not with some powders.

 

[ZeviB]

I prefer accurate#5 for 9mm, its my go to. I like #7 too....

I will definitely try the #5 as well. For the first reload, following good suggestions given here, I wanted to maximize the ability to visually confirm the amount of powder. The #7 calls for 7.0gr., while #5 is 5.3gr. Not a huge difference, but easier to see.
Thanks!

 

[Walkalong]

You'll find AA # 5 fills the case nicely, very easy to see.

 

[rfwobbly]

Congratulations !

The image below is pretty much self explanatory. Looks like I'm an equally-bad shot whether it's commercial or home-made ammo. The reloading was as good as it could be; shooting on the other hand - not so...

You'll need to shoot those from a "supported position" (eg. sandbag or bench) to really tell. If you'll work your way up in very small increments (0.1 or 0.2gr), you should see the pattern converge. The tightest pattern is what your barrel prefers and there is no need to load any hotter. Record ALL your trials and results in a Load Notebook in case you want to come back to this load next year.

If you'll pick a "standard distance" (say 30 feet) early on for all your handgun load testing, then you can easily compare powders and bullet performance against each other. You can compare shot groups made years apart... if the distance is kept the same.

The neck size (tension?) was at 0.376", and OAL 1.156". The "plunk & spin" test looked and felt good. I did use Lee's 4-dies carbide set. Was crimping incorrect here?

1) Take a Sized but un-belled case and slowly insert a bullet to your OAL. Since taper crimp is only to remove the Belling, the dimension of a case that never had belling is what you want to learn. Use the dimension of the un-belled cartridge as your guide. (Usually 0.377 to 0.379" with 9mm Luger.) This is important because "tighter taper crimp" usually loosens the grip on the bullet !!

2) You are now an ammo production factory. But ALL production has dimension variations. Case in point.... taper crimp diameter will vary because your case lengths also vary. For that reason you are much better off to average the taper crimp measurements of 6 to 8 finished cartridges. If you'll measure multiple cartridges you'll quickly see that depending upon 1 measurement is silly. Cartridges from the same dies can be as different as kids from the same parents.

Bottom Line: Stop thinking in terms of 1 acceptable measurement. Start thinking in terms of an acceptable range of measurements for all.

All the best.