Getting ready to load 30-30win...

[Jech]

Since I haven't loaded for a bottleneck cartridge before, I know there will be some extra equipment I need to buy. To preface, I have a Lee Classic 4-Hole Turret Press w/Safety Prime and Auto Disk Pro. My intent is that only cast boolits will be shot through this rifle...no bullets with full-length gas checks allowed! Here's my shopping list so far (all for 30-30 of course)

• Lee Deluxe 3-Die Set (#90631) or Lee Pacesetter 3-Die Set (#90506)
• Lee Factory Crimp Die (#90822) ((if I go with the Deluxe set))
• Lee Auto-Disk Rifle Powder Charging Die (#90194)
• Lyman Neck Expander M Die 30 Caliber Short (#7349003)
• Lee Case Length Gauge w/shellholder (#901366)
• Lee Case Trimmer Cutter and Lock Stud (#90110)
• Lee Case Trimmer Cutter w/ballgrip (#90275)
• Extra 4-hole Turret (#90269)
• Imperial Case Sizing Wax (#07600)
• 6-cavity Ranch Dog TLC311-165-RF

Now for a smattering of question marks that came up while hunting this stuff down...

-The Lee Pacesetter die set has a full-length resizing die. The Deluxe set nixes the FCD and adds a collet neck-sizer. ((not interested in pro/anti FCD commentary here, I like them)) I don't have experienced with full-length vs neck-sizing since I've only loaded handguns to date. Midway's description of the collet neck-sizer makes it sound like if I buy new/unfired brass and only put it through this gun keeping it fireformed, I don't need an FLR die.

-I put a Lyman M Expander on the list because I don't see anything in either the Deluxe or Pacesetter sets that prep the neck for bullet seating. Does the Lee FLR die expand the case mouth to any measurable degree or do I need to pick up something like a Lyman Type M Expander die before the seater die does it's thing?

-From what I've read, 30-30win headspaces on the rim. Intuition tells me the extra rounds in the tube are subjected to strong inertial forces making roll crimping a must. Am I connecting the dots properly here or is this a bad assumption?

-Since I use an LCT with the Auto Disk Pro, can I stack the adjustable charge bar I have with my regular auto disk to get the larger powder capacities or do I have to buy the double disk kit? I'd go scrounge up some extended screws obviously.

-Also pertaining to the Auto Disk Pro, there are 2 "universal" Lee powder dies, Midway says one is specifically meant for the Perfect Powder Measure and the other is a more limited 22 to 30 cal die that's meant for the auto disk pro making me think I need the latter version. Am I on the right track here?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Don't bother buying a Collet Neck Die for the 30-30, you really should full length size brass used in a levergun. I bought the Pacesetter Die set for reloading for the 30-30. I also see no need for an additional expander die. My Lee dies are just fine even with lead bullets. Everything else on your list I agree with. Good luck!

 

[jeepmor]

Don't overthink it too much, it's a 30-30 not a sniper rifle. I take a single once fired case and resize it to minimum forming and test empty case in rifle. If it closes stiff, I go about 1/8 turn down on die and try again until it just quits feeling like it's feeling hard. This is the same thing I do for my bolt guns and all you're doing is pushing the bottle neck a thousandth at a time or so. It works fine and minimizes the amount of wear and tear on your brass since you're only forming it just to where you need it and not much beyond.

If you have multiple guns, load for the tightest one and you should be good to go. I'm not much help on Lee specifics, but Imperial die wax is the greatest. If you get a stuck case, you'll want a case puller.

Hope this helps,

jeepmor

 

[dc.fireman]

I'm not up on too many of the Lee products - the ones I do own ( a few dies, and some case trimmer pilots + cutter), work well for me. The only I noticed missing from your list, unless you own them already are:

1. some kind of case mouth chamfer tool
2. a primer pocket uniformer for LR primers.

I took some advice from one of the some of the more knowledgeable gents here, and dropped the case mouth expanding process, in favor of the the case mouth chamfer process - it works well, and it's one less die to tinker with/adjust. You didn't mention it above, but are you loading this for a lever gun? Good Luck!

-tc

 

[Jech]

I'm not up on too many of the Lee products - the ones I do own ( a few dies, and some case trimmer pilots + cutter), work well for me. The only I noticed missing from your list, unless you own them already are:

1. some kind of case mouth chamfer tool
2. a primer pocket uniformer for LR primers.

I took some advice from one of the some of the more knowledgeable gents here, and dropped the case mouth expanding process, in favor of the the case mouth chamfer process - it works well, and it's one less die to tinker with/adjust. You didn't mention it above, but are you loading this for a lever gun? Good Luck!

-tc

I have an RCBS chamfer/debur tool on my loading bench, so that's one check mark off the list. Also a fellow from the local gun club told me that primer pocket / flash hole uniforming wasn't necessary for 30-30 especially if I was buying new brass...anybody else have an opinion on that?

Yes, this is for a lever gun...there's a Marlin 336 calling to me every time I walk in the door of the gun store

 

[Jech]

Don't bother buying a Collet Neck Die for the 30-30, you really should full length size brass used in a levergun. I bought the Pacesetter Die set for reloading for the 30-30. I also see no need for an additional expander die. My Lee dies are just fine even with lead bullets. Everything else on your list I agree with. Good luck!

If I read your post right, I should be able to drop the Lyman M Expander, Lee FCD and Deluxe 3-Die set and buy just the Pacesetter set right? That would all be great by me...heckuvalot cheaper!

 

[smokey262]

Do you know which powder you are going to use?

Do you already have the auto-disk riser?

Funnel? Caliper? Loading block?

I believe this
Lee Auto-Disk Rifle Powder Charging Die (#90194)

can replace this
Lyman Neck Expander M Die 30 Caliber Short (#7349003)



Since I use an LCT with the Auto Disk Pro, can I stack the adjustable charge bar I have with my regular auto disk to get the larger powder capacities or do I have to buy the double disk kit? I'd go scrounge up some extended screws obviously.
You need the DD kit to use two at a crack, you could make your own instead though.

 

[Jech]

Do you know which powder you are going to use?

Do you already have the auto-disk riser?

Funnel? Caliper? Loading block?

No, I don't know the powder yet...I know there are rice-grain like powders that clog up a powder measure so I was planning to just avoid those.

I have calipers and a micrometer already...I've been loading my own handgun ammo for about 9 months so the assumed basics are covered.

Funnel and loading block? Why do I need either one of these when the ammo is being assembled on a turret press with auto-dispensing measure? This has me really puzzled cause even on other boards I've gotten a bunch of suggestions for single-stage oriented equipment when the first thing I post is what kind of press I'm using...

Right now the biggest thing I'm still unsure about is to expand or not to expand. I've gotten feedback saying to not bother and just chamfer all my brass and others saying it's absolutely mandatory.

 

[animator]

A block and funnel for the times you want to measure your loads and pour back into the case, which should be every load when you start out.

 

[cheygriz]

Although I generally dislike extruded powders, I'll have to grudgingly admit that from my experience, IMR 3031 and 4064 just can't be beaten in the .30-30!

 

[Dave B]

Check and see if a Lyman die set has a "M" die in it. They are good with cast bullets.

 

[Quoheleth]

If you load pistols, you probably have Unique on hand. I use it and find it to be a great plinking load. If I were hunting, I might look for something with more velocity.

I got my info from the Lyman pistol & revolver manual. If you want it, let me know and I'll dig it up tomorrow. The data is to be used with a TC Contender, but it's worked fine with my Marlin 336 w/microgroves.

One thing I learned is don't over crimp. If you do, it will actually bump the shoulder down enough that it won't chamber. Just a nice gentle squeeze of a crimp will suffice - think mild roll-crimp. Check fit of an empty case before you load your first round, and then check fit of a loaded (or dummy) round before cranking out a whole box full. Ask me how I know...


Q

 

[Jech]

A block and funnel for the times you want to measure your loads and pour back into the case, which should be every load when you start out.

I use an RCBS 505 for load workup. Normally I charge the case, pour the contents into the scale's pan, weigh said charge, then use the pan to pour the powder back into the case.

Although I generally dislike extruded powders, I'll have to grudgingly admit that from my experience, IMR 3031 and 4064 just can't be beaten in the .30-30!

Since this is my first rifle cartridge, I get to play dumb here and say I don't know what extruded powder is. My guess though is the grains/flakes resemble sticks or long rice?

If you load pistols, you probably have Unique on hand. I use it and find it to be a great plinking load. If I were hunting, I might look for something with more velocity.

I got my info from the Lyman pistol & revolver manual. If you want it, let me know and I'll dig it up tomorrow. The data is to be used with a TC Contender, but it's worked fine with my Marlin 336 w/microgroves.

One thing I learned is don't over crimp. If you do, it will actually bump the shoulder down enough that it won't chamber. Just a nice gentle squeeze of a crimp will suffice - think mild roll-crimp. Check fit of an empty case before you load your first round, and then check fit of a loaded (or dummy) round before cranking out a whole box full. Ask me how I know...

Yup, I have HP-38, Unique, HS-6, and H-110 on hand. For manuals, I'm working from Lyman's 4th (cast bullets), Lyman's 49th (general handloading), Hornady's 7th and Speer's 13th. Sounds like you might have info that isn't available to me yet in paper form.

Heh, and I hear you about checking if it will chamber before cranking out a big batch. I always make a dummy or two and document the measurements of good builds exhaustively.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

If I read your post right, I should be able to drop the Lyman M Expander, Lee FCD and Deluxe 3-Die set and buy just the Pacesetter set right? That would all be great by me...heckuvalot cheaper!

Actually yes, the Pacesetter Die Set contains 3 dies, the Lee Factory Crimp Die, Full Length Sizer Die and Bullet Seater Die. That's the set I bought because it's everything I needed for loading 30-30 ammo. Also, Lee die sets come with the shell holder. Hey, that die set will cost you only ~$25, not bad IMO...

 

[Quoheleth]

I just pulled my Lyman pistol & revolver manual and checked for you. On p. 240, under the TC Contender & Encore section, it lists Unique for a 170gr bullet: 7.0gr (1060fps) -10.6gr (1416fps). Seriously - it's not much more recoil than a .22 Magnum; way less than a factory .30-30.

This manual also lists data for 2400. I can't remember if I tried that or not - I think I did, but won't swear to it. H110 is so particular about over & undercharging I wouldn't even attempt to try it in a .30-30.

Q

 

[germ]

I'm new to rifle shooting as well, so take this with a grain of salt. For 30-30, I bought the Lee set that came with both neck and full length sizers (the neck sizer sits unused though). I also use the FCD and the M dies. I have a Hornady seater on the way (it's been on back order for some time). So, instead of the Lee set, I should have just purchased the FL sizer or x-die.

Just for comparison, for 223 I use the RCBS X-die sizer (supposed to prevent the brass from stretching, I haven't fired any yet though), Lyman M expander, Hornady seater, and the FCD. For 45-70 I bought the set from Hornady, but still use the M die and FCD.

I like the M dies, especially for cast, because it seems to help keep the bullet more concentric with the case. Same for the Hornady seater in theory, although I can't confirm it at this point. In the not too distant future, I'm going to get some custom M expander plugs made to suit my cast bullet sizes.

How did I wind up with such a hodge-podge collection of dies? Search here and the various forums (cast boolits has LOTS of reloading info even if you don't shoot cast) for the x and m dies, and Hornady seater. Lots of posts from folks far more knowledgeable than I steered my direction.

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

I use a hodge-podge of dies too, but starting out with a set is just fine. If you intend to neck size eventually, I would go ahead and get the Lee Deluxe set (since you can't buy their collet neck die separately), and add the FCD.

Then later you can upgrade the seater to a Hornady, since you intend to use cast bullets. The Hornady seater disassembles for cleaning without tools, while still on the press, and goes back together with the settings intact. This is especially helpful since cast bullet lube tends to gunk up seating dies in a hurry. I've not had very good results with Lee seating dies.

If you do not intend to eventually neck size, I would start with the Hornady set, and add the FCD.

You may need a double-disk kit for your powder measure to handle the rifle powder loads.

Andy

 

[popper]

You must really like to shoot lead. Is there really a big cost savings for casting yourself?
At 7-10 cents for factory (FTX, Sierra RN or MBC cast), the extra trouble and cost don't make sense.
I use lead in 40 SW, but that is a different animal.

 

[Paul24]

Jech, Lyman M-Die is the best expanding die I have used for loading lead bullets in bottle neck rifle cases, bar non. I reload lead bullets in 30-30, 32 Winchester, 32 Remington, M1 carbine, and 30-06 rifles. The M-Die is has a step in it that aids in bullet alignmet, no other brands have the this step. No bottle neck sets come with a separate expander. Buy it you will be glad you did.

If you chamfer the cases you end up with a sharp edge and a weak crimp.

You loose nothing using the M-die in a progressive, swap the expanding ball out of the sizing die to a smaller ball or use rod out of a 270 or smaller. Changing the ball will reduce the load on the up pull of the press handle and you will find it rare to have to trim your cases. Hence you gain not having to trim cases.

You want the Lee crimp die, reguardless of what set of dies you buy.

Neck sizing only in lever guns will work if you stay with medium pressure loads and use only one gun. About every five sizings you will have to full length size. Big advantage of neck size only is NO lubrication is required.

When full lenght sizing use a product like Red Rooster PDQ-21 to lubricate casings. Follow instructions and you will not have to clean lub off the the loaded ammo. Be sure to clean rifle chamber be for shooting to prevent build up.

If you try loading with out expanding, you will find shaved lead cresents on the shoulder or neck of the loaded ammo. Do it right the first time, cut corners later.

Paul

 

[Centaur 1]

I've been casting for the 30-30 for a little over 6 months so I'm still pretty new at it. The one item that I want to try is the Lee universal case expanding die. Up till now I've been using an old plumb bob to give a slight chamfer to start the bullets without shaving any lead. I use leverevolution ammo for hunting so my handloads are for practice. I removed the gas check step from the Lee 150 grain FN mold with a .311 reamer, so now I get plain base bullets from it. I've been using Unique, but I just tried some Trail Boss with good results.

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cat...=/html/catalog/lubesize.html#CaseExpandingDie

 

[kelbro]

I have loaded 30-30 for many years. Just loaded some last night. I shoot cast bullets. Don't know what I would do without my Lyman M die. Totally different die than the Lee universal expander which I use on other calibers until I am able to get an M die for that caliber. I have never felt the need for an M die for jacketed bullets.

 

[Jech]

All great advice so far, I really appreciate all the feedback about other brands of dies cause someday I'll have the cash to move past Lee stuff. Sadly thought for now, I'm bound to the fiscally conservative route

I'm thinking over how all this will fit onto my press...this isn't the same neatly wrapped 4-die carbide package I'm used too. My initial thought is to put the full-length resizing/decapping die into a spare turret I keep for miscellaneous purposes (universal decapper, 2 cast boolit sizing dies). So the first station on the 30-30 turret would be the Lyman M Expander die followed by the universal rifle charging die with my Auto Disk Pro mounted on it. Third station would be the seater die from the Pacesetter set finally followed by the FCD.

It works well enough in my head but I have one of those questions that I should know the answer to and probably do but will make me sound dumb for asking... If I have the FL sizer in a separate turret, is there anything wrong with resizing and priming *all* my brass ahead of time and throwing it into a ziploc bag until I'm ready to do all my loading? I would be concerned that by not loading them right away that the brass's known "springyness" would come back to bite me by potentially relaxing back to a slightly larger size creating issues down the road.

Am I off the deep end on that one?

Thanks ~ Jech

 

[Jech]

You must really like to shoot lead. Is there really a big cost savings for casting yourself?
At 7-10 cents for factory (FTX, Sierra RN or MBC cast), the extra trouble and cost don't make sense.
I use lead in 40 SW, but that is a different animal.

Yes the savings for me are huge since I only shoot now as much as I did when I bought factory ammo. In my area, .45auto can be found easily for $60 for a 100rd Winchester White Box...because 45auto brass lasts forever and by casting my own boolits, I can make the same thing for about $5!! Just like with reloading though, there is some initial investment - the biggest of which is time that not all can spare - but it's worth it to me.

I don't see shooting lead as extra trouble because just as reloading became it's own hobby to supplement shooting, boolit casting is yet another fine art that takes a lot of time and respect to master. Personally, I love the challenge of perfecting my boolits just as much as I love shrinking my groups on the firing line.

 

[Paul24]

Jech, I like the idea of sizing and de-capping as a separate step. That gives you the opportunity to clean the primer pocket, measure the case length, and clean off the sizing lubrication as required. Spring back is not a problem. Again do not use a full size expander ball, you will expand with the M-Die. Zip locks bags work well.