Getting some flyers, why?

[ZX10Aviator]

Tikka T3 7mm Mag, new to me, 140gr barnes handloads going 3350fps (working great in a few other rifles). Ill get a couple shots sub moa, then one goes a few inches off to the lower right.

For example, just got in from the range, had a couple shots 1-1.25" low and on center within 1.5" of eachother at 200yds, so I gave it one click of up, let it sit for a few min to stay cool, next shot was 3" to the right and down a bit more. Had this a couple times, so packed it up..

Scope is a new Leupold VX3L 4.5-14x50

Anyone else had these issues?

 

[Grumulkin]

I hate to break it to you and others. There is no such thing as a "flyer" unless you're referring to the bullet flying and all bullets do that if they're going to make a hole. Any number of shots you shoot over one is a group and the hole you make is a part of the group whether it's 0.5 inches away from two kissing holes or 2 inches from them.

The more bullets you shoot, the more statistically significant your group is.



The above is a 0.042 inch 3 shot group I shot at 100 yards not long ago. You might say I'm very talented and/or have a great gun. I hate to disillusion you but it was pure luck. That gun won't consistently shoot 3 shot groups any better than about 1 to 1.5 inches at 100 yards. If I had taken another shot, I think my chance of getting a "flyer" would have been excellent.

 

[TonyAngel]

I agree with Grumulkin. To get any real idea of the consistency of the rifle and/or shooter, you should try something like a five, or better yet, ten shot group. This will give you a better idea of what's going on. The more rounds you shoot, the more you will see a pattern approaching.

Flyers are a non existent thing. When I use the term, what I mean is that I screwed that shot up and can usually call them.

 

[beatledog7]

If you don't have an outlier every now and then you're not shooting enough.

 

[Gtscotty]

It sounds like you're shooting pretty heavy loads in a fairly light rifle, do you think you are flinching? I know that with heavy '06 loads in my Tikka, I have to start concentrating on keeping proper shooting techniques and not flinching towards the end of a decent benched range session.

You also might want to play with bullet seating depth, I know that when I found the depth my 30-06 liked, the flyers went away, and my best groups halved. Good luck.

 

[Art Eatman]

"Fliers", as in one impact not right in with the others of a group, has been a subject of gripes and questioning for at least sixty-one years that I personally know of.

My guess is that if the impact is more than a half-inch or so away from the rest of the group, the odds are that it's the shooter. Some sort of gremlin in the gear tends to have the flier hit not far outside of "real nice group".

"...I gave it one click of up, let it sit for a few min to stay cool, next shot was 3" to the right and down a bit more."

Just off the cuff, that sounds like either a shooter problem or a scope problem. I've had that sort of thing happen, on rare occasion, and a different scope solved the problem.

 

[ZX10Aviator]

I know its not me, its just frustrating, I spent big money on this scope, and a good amount on the rifle, and I expected better from it.

 

[wingman]

I know its not me, its just frustrating, I spent big money on this scope, and a good amount on the rifle, and I expected better from it.

I know it's not me,famous words used it myself a few times and yet found out it was meor something I overlooked. New rifle takes time to grow accustom to the trigger, I've spent many hours and hundreds of rounds loading the proper load. Start out at 100 yards have a solid rest check for flinching with the 7mm, is barrel free floated or touching stock at some point. The T3 is capable of 1.0 or less, patience.

 

[bigedp51]

Have you checked your reloads for bullet runout, if your necks are being pull off center by the decapping rod button your necks could be pointing in all different directions when chambered.

For grins and giggles buy a Lee Collet die and see if your groups improve, if they do not then your trigger finger may need training. Your grip on the rifle, how tight to the shoulder, if the rifle is in the exact same position on the bags and many other things can effect shot placement.

97% of all errors are human errors and only 3% are mechanical failures.

 

[supercalvin56]

Couple of things I noticed in your narrative. You changed scope setting in the middle of a couple? That is no-no unless you are starting a new group. Any adjustment of a scope is asking for a group opener. Even with a Leupold I'd shoot a fouler or two to help the adjustment settle in. Some shooters tap the side of their scope to settle an adjustment.

Second, just because this load worked well in several other rifles does not mean it will work well in yours. I've loaded and shot a number of groups that were just 1/2 grain off the "sweet spot". Your Tikka's sweet spot is waiting to be found. Tikka's are among the most accurate off the shelf rifles. Give it a least several more chances by changing bullets, powders, seating depths.

 

[ZX10Aviator]

I realize one rifles great load isnt anothers, but itll shoot a handful in a great group, then throw one out in left field. I have never had this issue in any rifle Ive ever had. Doing some research the factory Tikka scope rings are not known to be that great, so tomorrow Ill go buy some leupolds and try again.

 

[Welding Rod]

I am with Biged.

Your groups are no better than the consistancy of your ammo, and concentric ammo helps.

What is the extreme spread in velocity for 10 shots of your load?

BTW, I bought a Tikka T3. It was about a 1 1/2" shooter. I was not impressed. My Rugers will do that, or better. So I promptly traded it off on another Ruger.

 

[Grumulkin]

The possible causes are:

1. You which I doubt.

2. The scope but being a new Leupold that's unlikely but not impossible.

3. The scope mount/rings. I recently had this problem in a 444 Marlin handgun. It had been shooting 1 or 2 inches at 100 yards and then went to 4 or 5 inches. Though the scope seemed firmly attached with no discernible movement when I tried to move it, the groups went back to what they should be when I retightened the base to ring screws. Loose base to gun screws could do the same thing. You should use low or medium strength Lock Tite to attach the base to the gun but don't need that on the rings.

4. Various things on the gun could cause your problem. I had an Encore barrel that would throw the first bullet or two and it turned out to be a minute defect in the crown. It was recrowned and fire lapped by T/C and the problem was cured. Improper barrel bedding could cause the problem as could throat erosion. You say the gun is new to you so I presume that means used. I had a used Blaser 257 Weatherby barrel that I couldn't get to shoot through about 200 well crafted handloads. Happily the barrel was replaced (since the Blaser people couldn't get it to shoot either) with a new one that shot just fine. In the Blaser barrel, there was a 3 or 4 inch area just distal to the chamber that fouled very fast and was very hard to clean which I suspect was either from a factory defect or from throat erosion.

5. There are some guns I've never been able to get Barnes bullets to shoot well in. Some loads that shoot great in one gun don't shoot that well in another. You might need to try a different bullet or an entirely different load.

 

[P-32]

I have a winny Feather Weight that will put 4 shots almost in the same hole with #5 going off someplace but still in the area of the kill zone of a deer. My problem is barrel heat. Besides, I want to lnow where the cold bore shot is going. Hopefully it's one shot, one dead deer. If I use the entire mag, then some thing is wrong no matter how tight the group is but again with my F/W the first 4 are going to the same place as the first.... Your 7 mag is going to heat things up pretty fast. I know we all judge a rifle by how tight the group is. I know we a;ll like to hold our target up and say "See" but if you hit your intended target the first time why get wrapped up in group size. I bet if you could have the same conditions for 5 days in a row you could more than likely put 5 bullets in the same hole with cold shots. 5 clean and cold bore shots would be interesting as well.

 

[bigedp51]

My No.4 Enfield shot these two fliers but I was using the aperture sights so I couldn't blame the scope. I decided to blame the sun moving behind the clouds and bad karma.



Do you use any hand-eye coordination methods before shooting to sharpen your shooting skills?

 

[ZX10Aviator]

Big, pic #1, hardly what Id call flyers, if those were 3"right and 3" down, then yes....

Pic#2, BAhahahahahhaaaa

 

[P-32]

You have a ZX10? I've got a ZG14.And yeah at times I do feel like a pilot.

 

[LoonWulf]

id suggest a full tear down and check make sure everything is the way it should be, aligned properly and tight. My newest 700 was a pretty consistant 1.5moa rifle and was happy enough with that. I recently went over it, as i had this stint of no work, and an took it all the way down. Found the front action screw just catching the bolt, and the magazine box flexing the floor plate. Last time out i took it along and it put every round from a partial box into a nice group at 200.

 

[JDGray]

bigedp51,
What the hell is that?

 

[mshootnit]

My post was mysteriously deleted.
I thought others might find my joke funny, but guess it didn't make it through the censor.
The reason you are getting fliers is because of bedding or loose scope mount screws. Either on the bases or rings. The scope is fine. If its letting loose you will have greater than 3" shift. If the scope is tight I would check the bedding and possibly float the barrel. Like mentioned check your magazine box to make sure its set properly. If all this doesn't fix it try a different scope.

 

[benzy2]

If it were me, I wouldn't adjust the scope mid group, at least until you can confirm that the scope is in proper working condition. You say you let the rifle sit for a few minutes and then it threw a flier. Any rough idea on how "cool" the barrel was compared to the previous shot? Do you see point of impact move as your rifle heats up?

Honestly, it could be a lot of issues. If the point of impact is bouncing from two spots (say centered on target and then a couple inches low right) my first guess would be bedding. I've seen a few rifles shoot to two different points and make two small groups at each point. Most of those have benefited from bedding.

Another option would be barrel pressure. Is the barrel floating? If not, it could be an issue where the final (or flier) shot is one done at either a bit higher or a bit lower temperature than the rest in the group, causing a bit of stringing. Again, if it were me, I'd send 5 down the barrel as fast as I can. If it strings in a nice diagonal line it may be a pressure point issue that could easily be fixed. Make sure to check if the barrel floats when it's warm. I've seen a few rifles that were floating when they were cool, but a bit of shooting made them touch the stock and throw shots.

I would also check all mounts/bolts are tight. Check that the action bolts are tight and the scope bolts are snug. The ring screws do not need to be overly tight, most call for somewhere between 10-20 inch-lbs which is far less than you might think. You might be stressing the scope if you have the rings improperly tightened, which could throw fliers, especially when adjustments are made.

That's where I would start. If nothing changes from there, it's a problem beyond my pay grade and it either gets sold off or it get sent to a gunsmith, depending on if I like the rifle a lot or not.

 

[LiquidTension]

I've had some mysterious fliers with a 700 I've got. Turns out that the stock is so flimsy that if you reposition the rifle on the rest at all it changes POI. It's still plenty accurate for a hunting rifle but the new one I've got is going to be bedded and floated.

 

[ZX10Aviator]

P-32, I did, I also have fly airplanes, but the zx10 almost went faster than all the planes and heli's I have flown! :O

A little progress I hope, new magnum scope rings and new bases, a little better, shot a couple stellar groups, but still an occasional oddball. Barrel is so small on this gun it heats up fast also.

Biggest thing Ive found with the rifle, I found tonight taking it out of the stock. If anyone has taken a tikka apart they will get this, the front part of the chamber has a notch in it that keys into a block into the stock, mine was not into that block, I can see 1/8" back marks of where its been wearing on top of the block. Now I have it seated properly, tomorrow hope to get out and see if thats the cure to my problems.

Fingers crossed!

PS. I had a group at 200 yards that was very under an inch (almost half an inch), and at 300 yards the group was 2.25" obviously these are with my handloads. We will see tomorrow!!!

 

[xmanpike]

Have you spoken with Barnes? I have a rifle that will consistently shoot .5-.75 MOA once I find a good load for it. I experimented with about 25 loads with Barnes bullets having very little luck. Called Barnes to ask them what the hell was wrong with their bullets and was asked how close to the lands I was. I told them all over between .010 and .030 trying to find something that would work. They told me their bullets like a jump into the lands. They recommended I start at .070 and work back to as far back as .150. Around .90 I found a load that shoots great. That being said, I dont use Barnes bullets anymore. I have some bullets that will shoot < 1 MOA regardless of the powder I put behind them or the OAL of the cartridge. Just something to try if youre determined to use Barnes. If not, I have had wonderful succes with Swift Scirrocco 2's and of course Nosler Ballistic tips. Although a Partition load that shoots just under an inch is still my hunting load.

 

[ZX10Aviator]

nah, it does it with factory ammo too. I dont remember how far off the lands the load is, never checked it in the tikka yet. In a mad scramble for hunting season!