Gibbs Rifle Co. might be bringing back 45-70 Enfields

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That would be a very cool and useful rifle here in Ohio now that .45-70 is legal for deer hunting.
 
Why are they using such an OOOOOOOOoooooooooooooollllld cartridge? Can't they at least use something from the 20th century and not the 19th? :D

I'd buy one, depending on the price. I've thought about doing a single-shot Mosin conversion too.

Matt
 
I think it has a nicer look to it than the original Lee .45-70 and the parent No.4 rifle it is made from.

Those Williams like sliding ramp rear sights need to be replaced with three or four express leafs though. Say one with a wide shallow "Oh my Gohd its on top of me" rear sight and one for 100 and 200 yards. I might not fight against having the longer range sights have little adjustable leafs o them like say the rear sight of a Rugger 10/22 if it could be done neatly.

As a "ute" I was fascinated with the Siamese Mausers that were available in the late '60s. The started as a weird rimed 8mm and were converted to .45-70.
Now that I learned I am not only with in 5 miles of a tiger holding facility but also within ten miles of another specializing in lions I need to convince the wife I NEED a .45-70.....its for the children!

-kBob
 
I have one of the early one of these. It functions just fine but it seemed kinda poorly finished, so I put a nice stock and better sights on it. One of my favorites now. If they do bring them out maybe I can get a spare magazine (ha ha).
Bob
 
They do like mighty temptin to me too! But, my Marlin 1895 would get less use... I'd expect that these are perfectly OK with Marlin lever loads (not Ruger #1 level)?
 
greenmtnguy said:
They do like mighty temptin to me too! But, my Marlin 1895 would get less use... I'd expect that these are perfectly OK with Marlin lever loads (not Ruger #1 level)?
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Well, the .303 British has a spec. pressure of 45,000 CUP. That would be a pretty toasty 45-70 load. Probably more than my shoulder would like to endure on a regular basis.
 
Now that I learned I am not only with in 5 miles of a tiger holding facility but also within ten miles of another specializing in lions I need to convince the wife I NEED a .45-70.....its for the children!
Click to expand...

I hear you.
The local college has a lion mascot, now two, about four blocks from here. When the summer carriage ride is in operation, I can hear the clop, clop, clop of the horse's hooves and the occasional roar of a lion. Sorta like 19th century Nairobi.
A friend used that to justify a .450 BPE.
 
Oh my! These would sell like hot cakes in Aus!
Lots and lots of guys shoot pigs, there is a massive following for Enfields here and its a lovely rifle to boot. I have two No4's one a smelly and the other a mint Savage manufactured.
 
Pressure

the .303 British has a spec. pressure of 45,000 CUP.
Click to expand...
Would the .45-70 case be safe in the Enfield at that pressure? How do the case head diameters compare? The .303 has a head diameter of 0.4554" and a rim diameter of 0. 540". The 45-70 is larger in both dimensions (head = 0.504"...rim = 0.608") The pressure is applied over a larger portion of the breech and bolt.....more square inches for the pressure to act upon and more thrust against the bolt.
Might still be OK....just thinking.
Pete
 
> modern

The old, low pressure black powder loads were way more powerful than most people realize.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/843705/posts
http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-6-ballistic-resistant-glass-gets-tested/
http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-4-miscellaneous-rounds-meet-the-box-o-truth/

I have a 1943 No.4 action, a surplus Gibbs .45-70 barrel I got from Sarco, and a couple of Remington-Lee .45-70 magazines. The Remington was the direct predecessor of the Enfield and the Remington magazines will latch up into the No.4 and correctly feed .45-70-500 cartridges. You need to shim the sides of the trigger guard, though, since it's narrower than the double-stack .303 magazine.

I got a chance to examine a Gibbs conversion thoroughly before I started building my own. Whatever stories you've read about the Gibbs magazines, the reality is much worse. The Remington magazine is stamped "1879", but the cartridges slide off and into the chamber like greased snot, whereas the Gibbs box was just as likely to give the cartridge a wedgie as not unless I worked the bolt at just the right speed.

As far as the rifle being able to handle the .45-70... the action was originally designed for that cartridge. When the British adopted it, they changed to a "modern" .30-caliber cartridge. A hundred years ago you could buy commercial sporting Enfields in a number of calibers besides .303. And then after WWII the Brits not only made new ones in .308, but converted many older guns as well.

One tip: if you do your own conversion, it takes a while to open up the forend from the skinny .303 size to the culvert-size .458 size. I'm no woodcarver, so checking and fitting took me right at twelve hours. If I ever do another I'll seriously consider just attacking it with the router and slopping a pint of Acraglas in there to make it less ugly...
 
I wonder where these will come in price wise? I would think they would need to be somewhere right around the Marlin 1895 to be competitive.
 
Gtscotty said:
I wonder where these will come in price wise? I would think they would need to be somewhere right around the Marlin 1895 to be competitive.
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I remember seeing a few in local gun shops back in the early 2000s and while I don't remember the exact price, I do remember that they could have been afforded by my college age self working part time jobs around classes.
 
There will be alot less metal thickness with a 45/70 sized chamber on these - a 45000 PSI load is definitely in Ruger #1 territory with a 45/70 and I wouldn't want to try that in one of these. Marlin lever loads are usually in the 28000-35000 level (or a bit less). The case head size of the 45/70 is alot larger too, so bolt thrust force also must be considered along with wall thickness.

Nonetheless, even at standard 45/70 pressure levels, the 45/70 loads are very effective and can penetrate like nobody's business.
 
greenmtnguy said:
There will be alot less metal thickness with a 45/70 sized chamber on these - a 45000 PSI load is definitely in Ruger #1 territory with a 45/70 and I wouldn't want to try that in one of these. Marlin lever loads are usually in the 28000-35000 level (or a bit less). The case head size of the 45/70 is alot larger too, so bolt thrust force also must be considered along with wall thickness.

Nonetheless, even at standard 45/70 pressure levels, the 45/70 loads are very effective and can penetrate like nobody's business.
Click to expand...

And given that the buttstock on the Gibbs isn't exactly cushy, I can't imagine anyone really wanting to shoot anything too hot.
 
I once saw an ad on how to start with a SMLE and make it over into a Remington Lee lookalike. Recommendation was to leave it in .303 or rebarrel to .405 WCF.
 
Interesting re-do , ....

... But off the bat the two problems I see are, first, the rear sight. Would need to replace that with some type of receiver-mounted peep or aperture sight for accurate shooting (assuming it's an "irons-only" proposition); and second, will there be any feed-reliability issues with the old Brit-style mag?

Neither deer nor hogs are likely to wait around after the first shot while you finger-fiddle trying to unjam that roscoe. :rolleyes:
 
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agtman said:
Interesting re-do , ....

... But off the bat the two problems I see are, first, the rear sight. Would need to replace that with some type of receiver-mounted peep or aperture sight for accurate shooting if it's an "irons-only" proposition; and second, will there be any feed-reliability issues with the old Brit-style mag?

Neither deer nor hogs are likely to wait around after the first shot while you finger-fiddle trying to unjam that roscoe. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

The models they previously had did have a Williams rear sight, but the photo also shows a standard rear sight mounted to the barrel. Maybe that was removable.

http://www.gibbsrifle.com/sport_speciality_.html
 
PeteD hit the nail on the head. I don't think Gibbs would recommend shooting any Ruger #1 loads in their rifles.

To illustrate the point: A 30-06 has about 10,500 pounds of static thrust against the breech bolt, for a fraction of an instant. A 5.56MM has 6160. They are loaded to the same approximate pressures. So how can this be?

Simple. The 5.56 has a much smaller area for the pressure to push on. .112 Sq In as opposed to .176 Sq In for the 06. A 45-70 is considerably larger than an 06. I don't have exact figures but I would guess a Ruger #1 load is straining the gun more than an 06. This is why shotguns operate at such low pressures compared to rifles and shotguns.

As for the Gibbs rifle, I have handled one and shot a few rounds through it. I liked it; it seemed smooth and handled well. I could hit a grapefruit with it at 60 yards. I would buy one, with one caveat, they have a rather nasty recoil, at least with anything over a trap door load. One in 405 would be interesting....but it would probably kick even harder!
 
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