Gifting a handgun to an out of state family member

[wqbang]

I would like to gift a handgun to a family member that currently resides in California. I am a resident of Washington. Can anyone outlines the steps I need to take to make this a legal transaction with the minimum required paperwork? The family member is on vacation here in Washington at this time.

This person is not prohibited from owning a firearm by federal or state law.

Thanks!

 

[Edmond]

Since it's out of state, ship it through a FFL and have them do the paperwork. It's quite easy and doesn't take long. Cheapest I've seen shops charge is $20.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Gotta ship if through an FFL in California. Another potential problem is it will have to be on CAs "approved" list of firearms.

 

[wqbang]

So in other words, he can't hand carry it in his vehicle. Right?

 

[TooTaxed]

Interesting question.

At the time I regretfully emmigrated from California upon my retirement in 2003, there was no requirement that people who already possessed pistols or other guns had to register them...except for assault rifles...which registration records the officials later used to try to confiscate the guns! (many of which were reported by the owners to have been lost overboard in boating accidents...or sent out of state for storage, like my AR-15.)

Most people in California...as in other states... have owned their guns for many years and have long a go lost the procurement records. New purchases did have to go through a FFL, even for .22 rifles and shotguns. I had no problems shooting my unregistered pistols at the local ranges, and even took a CCW course. In order to avoid any potential problems I made sure to carry them unloaded, locked in the car trunk.

 

[Graystar]

So in other words, he can't hand carry it in his vehicle. Right?

That's right.

 

[cracked butt]

California would be a wonderful place to go on vacation, wouldn't it?

That's all I have to say on this subject in order to avoid overtly giving questionable advice.

 

[Gunsnrovers]

In the PRK, a husband and wife, parent and child, and grandparent and grandchild relationship is exempt from the dealer transfer requirement.

If it's exempt, meet face to face anywhere and they can drive home with it. If it's a handgun, they must register it within 30 day. I cannot be on the PRK banned list.

If it's not exempt, it must be via a FFL.

If via FFL and it's on the DAJ approved list, you can ship it to their local FFL and they can deal with FFL transfer fees (unregulated if out of state). These can be as high as $100. Or you can go face to face at a PRK FFL. In this case the state limits the fee to $30.

If it's not on the DOJ approved list, it must be a face to face PPT in the PRK.

That's my understanding from the DOJ web page and from a response I got from a DOJ agent when I sent them an email asking for clarification about this. My dad is in Arizona and he has a few handguns I would like get from him.

The agent advised the best bet, being an father to son exempt transfer, was to get it next time I visit him, drive home with it, and then register it.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

I think the agent advised you to commit a federal offense. The only PtP transfer across state lines without using an FFL is upon inheriting one from a dead person, AFAIK.

 

[R.H. Lee]

Who is the state to tell you what you can or cannot do with your own property, especially within the confines of your own family?

 

[Graystar]

I think the agent advised you to commit a federal offense.

I agree.

If it's exempt, meet face to face anywhere

I think that means anywhere in California, and must be limited to California residents.

No matter what the law is in California, it doesn't extend to Arizona and it certainly doesn't usurp federal law.

In the majority of states guns aren’t registered. In these states there is no dealer-transfer requirement at all! I live in New York were guns are registered and even here I don’t have to go through a dealer to transfer a handgun to another licensee. So what you're talking about is a California thing, not federal.

And what is a “DOJ approved list�

What DOJ webpage did you get this information from?

 

[jnojr]

California would be a wonderful place to go on vacation, wouldn't it?

I'm pretty sure that a visitor cannot bring handguns in and sell them. You'd have to move here, establish residency, and register the guns with CADOJ, then sell them (assuming we're talking about ones not on the "approved" list).

If anyone's planning on moving to San Diego in the near future, please IM me

 

[wqbang]

I have lurked on this board for a while. Thanks for all of your comments. I think this is a worthwhile discussion. especially for those of us with family in California.

After being affected by another states laws directly I have a new found appreciation for Washington's relatively liberal (in the traditional meaning) gun laws.

 

[Gunsnrovers]

Can I give a firearm to my adult child?_ Can he/she give it back to me later?

Yes, as long as the adult child receiving the firearm is not in a prohibited category and the firearm is a legal firearm to possess, the transfer of a firearm between a_ parent and child or a grandparent and grandchild is exempt from the dealer transfer requirement._ However, if the firearm is a handgun, you must submit an Operation of Law form and $14 fee to the DOJ within 30 days._ Assault weapons may not be transferred in this fashion._ See Penal Code section 12285, subdivision (b).

(PC section 12076(c))_

Can I give a firearm to my spouse?_ Can he/she give it back to me later?

Yes, as long as the person receiving the firearm is not in a prohibited category and the firearm is not an assault weapon, the transfer of a firearm between a husband and wife is exempt from the requirement to use a licensed dealer to perform the transfer._ However, if the firearm is a handgun, the recipient must submit an Operation of Law form and $14 fee to the DOJ within 30 days._

(PC sections 12076(f), 12078(i))_

As copied from the DOJ web page and pretty much what I was told by the agent.

AZ state law does not require an FFL for a face to face PPT. The poster was from Washington State where the law says that alerting the state to a face to face PPT is voluntary. As the transfer does not violate the state laws of CA, AZ, or WA, I'm not certain what felony you're refering to. I was under the impression that the GCA rules for transfer depending on following the laws of the states effected.

 

[Richardson]

Gunsnrovers,

US CODE - 922

On the phone, an ATF agent told me that it's a federal offense to transfer a firearm to someone who resides in another state, and it is a federal offense for them to transport it into their state. When I read this section (922), it sure sounded like a gift would be excempt from "interstate commerce", but I'm neither a lawyer nor a prosecutor.

Even so, if you gave a firearm to a person while they resided in the same state as yourself, and then you simply held onto them for a while, you could deliver them to the owner when you two eventually moved to different states. Of course you'd have to have shared residence after the gun was purchased, or this could be proven to be illegal. In states where one does not need to keep a record of their transactions (NOTE: In Illinois you must keep a record of all firearms dispositions for 10 years), I suspect that quite a few firearms get sold to out-of-staters at gunshows and between family members.

In California, they will have to fill out the "Operation of Law form" with the DOJ. They may check the background on the firearm and notice if it was purchased in Washington after the person moved into California.

The web page citations you noted have to do with California in-state transactions, not interstate transactions.

To be certain that you're not breaking any laws: (1) make sure they're legal in CA, (2) have them shipped to an FFL in CA who will transfer them to your relative.

Jacob

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Gunsnrovers,

All of that is California law. Here is what Federal law says:

§ 178.29 Out-of-State acquisition of firearms by nonlicensees.


No person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, shall transport into or receive in the State where the person resides (or if a corporation or other business entity, where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State: Provided, That the provisions of this section:

(a) Shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State;

(b) Shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a rifle or shotgun obtained from a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector in a State other than the transferee's State of residence in an over-the-counter transaction at the licensee's premises obtained in conformity with the provisions of § 178.96(c); and

(c) Shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with the provisions of §§ 178.30 and 178.97.

Note that there is no exception that allows for transferring a firearm to a relative across state lines as a gift. The only exception is for inheriting the firearm and even then, it must still be legal at that person's place of residence.

Who is the state to tell you what you can or cannot do with your own property, especially within the confines of your own family?

That would be the state that puts you in prison for violating a federal law which prohibits the transferring of firearms across state lines by nonlicenees.

 

[Gunsnrovers]

Thanks.

 

[ilcylic]

So, I'm in Nevada right now. If I sell my Mini-14 to someone back home in New Mexico, or to a friend in Washington State, can I go there directly and do a face to face transfer legally, or do I need to go through an FFL?

I know better than to try to get the Mini-14 into California.

(BTW: "pre-ban" [for what that's worth now] Mini-14 with Ram-Line folding stock and 1 40 rd + 1 5rd magazine for sale. Currently in Las Vegas. Where can I look up what this is worth?)

-Ogre

 

[Hkmp5sd]

can I go there directly and do a face to face transfer legally, or do I need to go through an FFL?

Gotta use an FFL in the state of the person you are transferring it to.

 

[ilcylic]

Can I, as a regular private individual, simply ship this rifle to an FFL in any state where it is legal to own? Or if I'm shipping, do I need an FFL on my end too?

(Sorry, I'm sure this is basic info, but I can't find it anywhere.)

-Ogre

 

[Hkmp5sd]

If there are no local laws prohibiting it, you can ship a firearm to any FFL in the US. A couple of states require an FFL on both ends, but the feds don't.