Gifting a rifle to out-of-state relative: legal? possible?

[buzz meeks]

Howdy. First some background info. My father-in-law retired recently and in the spring will be moving his permanent residence from PA to a gentleman's/hobbyist farm in MA. The place is filthy with woodchucks and for years he has muttered something about getting a gun to take care of them. This year, I've decided I'd like to give him the Marlin 25 that my father gave to me twenty years ago. No, it's not the ideal varmint rifle but it will work for him as it worked for me when I used to live in New England. And it has great sentimental value to me and he knows that.

But here's the problem. I live in Montana. The father-in-law will be spending this Christmas with us and I am wondering if it is legal for me to give him the rifle in the first place. And then, how hard will it be for him to fly home with it? Finally, will there be any legal hitches when returns to PA?

Thanks and Happy Holidays.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Under federal law you may not transfer a gun to someone that lives in a different state, whether a gift, trade or outright sale. The only exception is if someone dies and leaves the gun to you, in which case you can go pick it up and bring it home.

The only legal way to give him the gun is to send it to an FFL in PA and have him take possession there.

 

[Atticus]

Are you sure about that? I thought that applied to handguns only.
Edit -I didn't see the "from PA to MA" part. Have him check his state laws.

 

[femoralis]

Illegal. Transfer via an FFL.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

I thought that applied to handguns only.

It applies to ALL "modern" firearms. If it crosses state lines and both parties are non-licensees, it must go through an FFL in the receiver's home state.

If it is a rifle or shotgun, you can travel to another state and buy it from a dealer provided you are physically at his business premises for the transaction and it is legal for you to possess the gun at both his premises and your residence.

 

[buzz meeks]

Thanks so far, folks. Forgive me for these questions but I'm a total rookie in these matters. If I understand correctly, my father-in-law needs to find himself an FFL in his area who is willing to receive the firearm in question, right? What do I need to do to get the gun to my FIL's FFL? Can I ship it directly or do I also need to use an FFL on my end?

Also, while I trust the advice given here, it is my intent to stay on the right side of the law. Is there an online BATF source where I could double check all this?

 

[Coltdriver]

Buzz you can ship your rifle via the US Postal Service to your FIL's FFL.

Just to be on the safe side on your part have your FIL's FFL send you an ink signed copy of their FFL license.

Go over to www.gunbroker.com and find the link to the BATF site that lets you enter the FFL license number to verify that it is a good license.

Go to the USPS site and look up their rules for shipping the rifle. It will also point to the batf rules you need to understand. They are all relatively simple and quite honestly there is nothing to them. You are totally legal as a citizen sending a rifle to a licensed FFL. I would recommend that you print the USPS rules and take them to the post office with you. On two occasions I have had to educate the USPS personel when they insisted on something stupid like me taking the firing pin out of the rifle etc. You may have a gun friendly Post Office in MT. Some of them in Colorado are plain stupid. You will send your rifle priority and insure it for a couple of dollars while you are at it.

The easiest way I have found to ship a rifle is to go to a mail boxes etc store and get a sheet of cardboard of the right length. Then make a triangular box and cut a piece to fit each end. You can really box it up tight and securely. With a little forethought you can make the end pieces fold in from one of the triangle sides. I use newspaper and bubble wrap and secure them around the rifle with a little tape on the outside of the packing.

You do not want anything on the outside of the box that would identify the contents as a rifle. Thats about it for packing.

You might check with your post office as they have a ready made triangular box that is free for priority shipping.

Good Luck!

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Is there an online BATF source where I could double check all this?

§ 922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful --

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/complete.htm

B. UNLICENSED PERSONS

(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-state source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser's own state?

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-state source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's state of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer. [18 U. S. C 922( a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29]

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1

 

[buzz meeks]

For government speak, that was all very clear. Thanks, Coltdriver and Hk. Looks like I'll present the rifle as planned on Christmas morning and then we'll have to find an FFL in my FIL's home state who can do the transfer.

Coltdriver- I have shipped a rifle back to the manufacturer before and my post office is great. As soon as the clerk found out I was shipping a rifle, we ended up having a nice chat about guns. That's Montana for you.

 

[Coltdriver]

Buzz,

Now that I have two post offices's "trained" I don't have any more trouble and I go the them to avoid having to train another.

I brought a barrel and a stock only (from a dismantled 10/22) - no receiver or any other parts into the Wheat Ridge post office and the clerk there was hyperventilating. When I held one part in each hand she calmed down.

The same post office told me I could not ship a rifle, I had to have them call their own standards office. Once they told me I had to take the firing pin out of the rifle (this is a requirement for pistols but mere citizens can not ship a pistol via USPS anyway).

I have often wondered what job I could get that would allow me to pay the rent and live in a place like Montana or Idaho

Merry Christmas

 

[Jonathan]

In a place like Montana or Idaho you could work fast food and pay the rent.

Even houses with property (often horse pastures) rent for very little outside of towns. If you look at the straight numbers (link) then it's like taking a 10% pay cut, but I think we have more out-of-town housing opportunities to offset that cost. Think of all the benefits you get for that 10%, anyway:

 

[Mannlicher]

When father in law shows up, give him the gun. when he goes home, put it in his car. end of problem.