Gimmick or effective?
- Thread starter Godsgunman
- Start date
- Status
Cannot stand his videos.
Godsgunman
Member
Yes a rifle round would definitely cause much more traumatic injury no matter where hit. The pelvic bone when it shatters tends to splinter (shard) more. Even in extreme falls off ladders and car crashes the concern with pelvic breakage is with the puncturing of the femoral or descending aorta.
somethingbenign
Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2017
- Messages
- 944
Is this part of why hip fractures in the elderly are so detrimental to overall patient quality of life? I know a major factor is the loss of confidence in walking and sitting in any chair for days on end isn't good for anyone.
I'm a believer in some of the discussions over in the ACLDN on what happens after the shoot: if a prosecutor decides to go after you, s/he will use any argument available to convince the jury you are a bad person and were just looking for the chance to kill someone. Specific "evidence" for this prosecutorial portrayal as a wanna-be killer include mods to your defensive firearm to make it look more scary, to make it MUCH easier to shoot (e.g. 'hair trigger'), and use of ammunition more lethal than necessary (yeah, I know, but think in terms of lawyers talking to a naive jury). Use of ammunition with the name R.I.P. hands that last argument to the prosecutor on a silver platter. Remember the mantra - a defender is not trying to kill, only to stop the attack.
I am not a lawyer but I do try to pay attention when knowledgable ones give commentary and advice.
I am not a lawyer but I do try to pay attention when knowledgable ones give commentary and advice.
stillquietvoice
Contributing Member
I'm not either but have been through the proverbial ringer.
DA, you used a 357 mag, you make your own bullets...
Me, it was the smallest that I had, it put my neighbors in the least danger from bullets comming through walls.
A lot of people reload it's cheaper than buying.
earlthegoat2
Member
He has. I didn't post this earlier because I honestly thought everyone here watched Paul Harrell.
Skip to 5:52 for the RIP vs. the meat target.
Short Version: Similar to the OPs observations.
cougar1717
Member
First of all, I am glad that the patient is alive. Human life is important and precious. Mankind only lives once and then faces judgment.
However, I'm not a fan of frangibles by any name - whether that is Corbon, Liberty, G2, etc. I wouldn't dismiss them as a gimmick. The word gimmick has a bad connotation as something that tricks, deceives, or confuses. Something that grabs attention but doesn't do what it claims to do.
In my opinion, the G2 RIP does what it claims to do:
(9mm - from their website)
But look at luckygunner's gel test:
https://www.luckygunner.com/9mm-luger-g2-research-rip-92gr-hp-20#geltest
It appears that have substantiated their terminal performance claims. It confirms the penetration depth and diameter spread.
Then, the other extreme - Is it effective?
Again, not trying to be harsh here - but as another poster wrote - self inflicted, point blank, still alive.
From the gel test, most of the damage occurs between 2-6", with the leftover disc base going approx 14".
This thing isn't going to be adopted by the FBI, but the fragmentation appears uniform and repeatable.
However, the performance is not what most CCW holders desire in a carry ammo. Sure, accuracy matters and the "shot placement above all else" squad exists, but so does expansion, penetration, and how the energy is expended. Frangible ammos by nature give up penetration for extreme expansion and a large, shallow energy dump with shrapnel. Without being a total regurgitating tool, a federal agency suggests 12-18" of penetration in 10% ballistic ordinance gelatin. The RIP meets this depth with the leftover frisbee-looking base of the bullet with a maximum .355" hole that travels another 6-8" after the petals stop at the 6" mark.
As PH would say, "You be the judge."
However, I'm not a fan of frangibles by any name - whether that is Corbon, Liberty, G2, etc. I wouldn't dismiss them as a gimmick. The word gimmick has a bad connotation as something that tricks, deceives, or confuses. Something that grabs attention but doesn't do what it claims to do.
In my opinion, the G2 RIP does what it claims to do:
(9mm - from their website)
- 14″– 16″ of Penetration
- 2″ Groupings at 25 yrds
- 9 Separate Wound Channels
- Solid Copper / Lead Free
- up to 6″ Diameter Spread
- Precision Machined
- Defeats all known barriers such as sheet metal, sheet rock, windshields, plywood, heavy winter clothing.
But look at luckygunner's gel test:
https://www.luckygunner.com/9mm-luger-g2-research-rip-92gr-hp-20#geltest
It appears that have substantiated their terminal performance claims. It confirms the penetration depth and diameter spread.
Then, the other extreme - Is it effective?
Again, not trying to be harsh here - but as another poster wrote - self inflicted, point blank, still alive.
From the gel test, most of the damage occurs between 2-6", with the leftover disc base going approx 14".
This thing isn't going to be adopted by the FBI, but the fragmentation appears uniform and repeatable.
However, the performance is not what most CCW holders desire in a carry ammo. Sure, accuracy matters and the "shot placement above all else" squad exists, but so does expansion, penetration, and how the energy is expended. Frangible ammos by nature give up penetration for extreme expansion and a large, shallow energy dump with shrapnel. Without being a total regurgitating tool, a federal agency suggests 12-18" of penetration in 10% ballistic ordinance gelatin. The RIP meets this depth with the leftover frisbee-looking base of the bullet with a maximum .355" hole that travels another 6-8" after the petals stop at the 6" mark.
As PH would say, "You be the judge."
GunnyUSMC
Member
My buddy proceeded an SUV that was involved in a shooting where the driver was killed. The shooter was approximately 7 to 10 yards from the vehicle and fired into the driver side window with 9mm RIP ammo. The window was tented and was still in place. Three rounds struck the window and one just below into the door.
One round had struck the driver in the neck, killing him. One round went through the window and the base of the bullet exited the passenger window. The third bullet came apart as it struck the window. The base penetrated the driver seat headrest and was recovered along with some of the bullet fragments.
I would have to say that if the driver was able to comment how the RIP ammo preforms , he would probably say better then he liked.
Now at a cost of $2 a round, on average, it would be a little costly to test and practice and make sure that it functioned property I’m the Guns that I carry off duty. So I’ll just stick with Gold Dot.
I have fired some of the RIP ammo in 380, 9mm and 40 in different guns in the lad for the purpose of recovering the bullets and the ammo fed with no issues in the Glocks that I used.
One round had struck the driver in the neck, killing him. One round went through the window and the base of the bullet exited the passenger window. The third bullet came apart as it struck the window. The base penetrated the driver seat headrest and was recovered along with some of the bullet fragments.
I would have to say that if the driver was able to comment how the RIP ammo preforms , he would probably say better then he liked.
Now at a cost of $2 a round, on average, it would be a little costly to test and practice and make sure that it functioned property I’m the Guns that I carry off duty. So I’ll just stick with Gold Dot.
I have fired some of the RIP ammo in 380, 9mm and 40 in different guns in the lad for the purpose of recovering the bullets and the ammo fed with no issues in the Glocks that I used.
Arkansas Paul
Member
Thanks.
I have watched most of his stuff, and enjoy his videos. Must have either missed that one or forgotten about it.
- Status
