Girl shoots Father..this is something to really look at

[scurtis_34471]

I also find the trend of charging children as adults disturbing. I remember the case of a 12 year-old boy who accidenty killed a neighbor child while wrestling. He had seen people do pile drivers many times on TV and did not know it would actually kill somone. He was tried as an adult and convicted of second degree murder.

I saw another case where an 8 year old drowned is 2 year-old sister while they were taking a bath and the state tried to try him as an adult. The courts stepped in and put a stop to it that time. This is insanity. Children are not adults. Their congnitive skills are not developed. They don't really understand the full consequences of what they do. That is why we have a juvenille justice system to begin with. Charging kids as adults is madness.

 

[Cosmoline]

It gets really surreal when there are kids put into max security prisons. If you're going to do that to someone, you really might as well just kill them.

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

It gets really surreal when there are kids put into max security prisons. If you're going to do that to someone, you really might as well just kill them.

Don't they just go to juvy until they turn 18?


Not saying he didn't have it coming either...But she was 13, not 5. I was plenty old enough at 13 to know how to get out of a bad situtation with my parents without killing them(not that I did, I loved my parents).

Not to mention she messed up the house to try and cover it up.

Once again, I'm not taking sides, and maybe she shouldn't be shackled but I don't think its the worst idea ever to have her locked somewhere to make sure she is mentally stable and not going to do something like this again.

 

[Strings]

Before i say ANYTHING else, I'd like to add something to Rantingredneck's post: not only should your report be in writing, to several folks at CPS, but make sure you give your name. Anonymous reports go to the bottom of the stack.

Now, some here have suggested that "they", at 13, would have known how to leave the situation. We had a case of a 19 year-old girl, who had been raped by her father since she was 5. The abuse continued even at college, in her dorm room. She had NO idea how to make it stop...

IF there's abuse involved, it's likely that it's been ongoing for quite some time. In such cases, that's all the child knows, and be desperate to "get away". Desperate people, as we all know, can take desperate measures (like shooting someone in the face with a shotgun)...

we don't have all the facts here. We may never. I'm gonna put my trust in the system for now, and hope that the Grand Jury finds out the truth of the matter.

 

[ozwyn]

Charging is one thing, convicting is quite another. Might be hard pressed to find a jury who will convict on this if there is any signs or history of abuse.

 

[Jmeyer1292]

Assuming that the girl was severely abused, could you not argue that she committed an act of self defense, even if she was not in immediate danger?

I mean, she is a 13 year old girl. I highly doubt she'd be capable of defending herself when she is being abused by a thirty something year old man. I highly doubt, for that matter, that she had any idea of how to escape, except one. If she can not escape because she is, or at least feels, confined and can not defend herself while being abused, what option does she have but to do what she did if she wanted the abuse to stop?

 

[rantingredneck]

Before i say ANYTHING else, I'd like to add something to Rantingredneck's post: not only should your report be in writing, to several folks at CPS, but make sure you give your name. Anonymous reports go to the bottom of the stack.

Good point. Anonymous reports may make you feel better, but they accomplish next to nothing.

 

[jaholder1971]

How in the heck can they prosecute a 13 year old as an adult!? She is....13... I find this trend alone quite disturbing.

Simple - They get permission from a judge.

 

[Dark_Harvest]

to "the_deer_hunter" and "budney:"


so this isn't the place to be honest? this isn't the place to apply my knowledge of the media to a certain subject?

weird... i must have been misinformed... i could have sworn i lived in america...

i guess i'll be exercising my right to ignore you from now on...

like you should have ignored me, if you didn't like my view.

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

RAMESH SANTANAM,
AP

What is this anyway?

 

[Dark_Harvest]

it's the byline of the originally posted article, i.e. who wrote it, and what media outlet published it.

 

[Strings]

Dark_Harvest: is your point the person, or the news service?

 

[Agouti]

I find the trend quite refreshing. If the father was indeed raping her, she set the new trend of shooting rapists in the face with a shotgun. In fact, I think this line of thought should be promoted. If you rape someone, you WILL be shot in the face. I think we would find that rape rates suddenly drop when rapists are in fear of their lives. Not just children either, grown women too -and men!

And of course she was trying to cover it up, with today's whacked out liberals wanting to stop self defense, can you really blame her?

Of course, if he wasn't abusing her in any way, was just a lousy housekeeper, then I think 13 is a fine age to charge her as an adult. I certainly understood what death was at that age.

 

[Geno]

This child will never get a fair trial! Where is a responsible parent willing and able to mount an earth shaking defense?! Given what the child appears to have endured, and that the prosecutor is willing to throw her life away hints to me, that her life may well be over. Simple ameriKan injustice: 1) over-charge the innocent, 2) plea it down through fear-mongering and 3) brag up their legal resume to the press...toughening up on crime...one defenseless little child at a time.

 

[JP from Phoenix]

I don't know about all cases but i know there were instances where they put older teenagers in real prison.

 

[Dark_Harvest]

to "Strings" and everyone else beating around the bush...

call me a racist and get it over with.


i don't appreciate the fact that i point out that a gun-negative perspective is put forth by a journalist from an anti-gun city (philadelphia) working for a mainly liberal news company (ap), and all you guys focus on is the guys name.

grow up.

 

[LadySmith]

I agree with JMeyer1292. This was a 13-year old girl, a child, stuck in a bad situation. Her mother, her neighbor and county welfare officials, adults all, were not able to protect her. So she had to protect herself. She didn't get someone else to do it for her. I am curious about some things.
Why was she with the father in such deplorable conditions instead of with the mother?
Where did she get the gun?
Why didn't any adult do something before it reached this point?

 

[budney]

Dark Harvest, that the guy has an Indian name is irrelevant. I have no idea what you think his name tells you--unless you have a beef with Indians generally. And if you do, then Deer Hunter, Strings and the others are right: this is not a welcoming place for racists to hang out.

If we've misunderstood you, please set us straight. So far, you're reinforcing the impression of your original post.

--Len.

 

[grampster]

Dark Harvest,

If you did not intend to make a racist remark, then why make the comment you did in the fashion you did? Why not be specific? If you wish to make a comment about bias in the report, then say so. Clarity is good.

Don't further feed the troll, folks.

 

[joab]

I remember the case of a 12 year-old boy who accidenty killed a neighbor child while wrestling.

This is the problem with this and other discussions on this board

A person gives a defense that warms our cockles so we are all to willing to accept it

The boy in question claimed to have accidentally killed the girl, the evidence did not support that.
The coroner pointed out injuries that were not consistent with the story but pointed to a sustained attack

The prosecution, however, argued that the injuries that she sustained -- brain injuries, liver injuries, a broken rib, more than 30 bruises all over her body -- suggested that this was a brutal attack, an intentional attack that took more than five minutes to complete

That's what happens when we don't read past the headline

 

[benEzra]

RAMESH SANTANAM,
AP

What is this anyway?

An Indian name, as opposed to a Western European one like "Sarah Brady"?

I would politely point out that THR's own sysadmin is a Muslim gentleman named Zeanah, who works hard to keep this site running. Anyone taking issue with people with "foreign" sounding names are here only because Derek graciously allows them to be.

The United States is entirely a nation of immigrants, unless you are Native American--and even they immigrated, just not recently. African, Indian, European, Middle Eastern, doesn't matter. We're all non-native to this continent.

FWIW, if my user name weren't "benEzra" (Jewish, via a British poet), it would probably be "Chandrasekhar" (after Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar, a famous American).

 

[Thad]

The name could have been left out and just AP would have been your focus. It is obviously misunderstood by many members from your OP, Dark Harvest.

 

[Dark_Harvest]

fine. if you refuse to listen to the part where the background (NOT RACE) of that author biased his report, just focus on the AP part.

for the last time, you guys brought up race. i only posted his name so you could check on the fact that he's from philly, and has written with a liberal slant before.

it doesn't matter who here is indian, or anything else. get over your hangups, and don't apply them to me. that's your problem, not mine.

budney:

how am i reinforcing anything? i posted just before you did CLEARLY STATING WHY I POSTED HIS NAME and you IGNORED IT. go back and read my post #41. it states the reason for posting his name, and it's not because he's Indian. do us all a favor, and read before you post.

and really, just what are you implying here, benezra????

"FWIW, if my user name weren't "benEzra" (Jewish, via a British poet), it would probably be "Chandrasekhar" (after Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar, a famous American"

when did i question the nationality of anyone????? when????


all i meant was AP. just the AP. only the AP.

happy now?

and i'm not a troll. but it is obvious this is NOT the place for me, as i am able to both read, and not project my beliefs onto everyone else, only seeing what i want to.

so much for the "High Road..."

 

[joab]

Dark
Your shrillness is not helping you

You simply post a name and expect others to draw their own conclusions and then get pissy when they do

To support your case you make further baseless comments
There was nothing gun-negative about the report
That part was actually pretty unbiased and straightforward
And why would it not be appropriate for a reporter of a newspaper to report on stories that happen in their city

If you had meant to reference only AP you could have simply highlighted only AP instead of the reporter's terroristy name

You yourself caused the conflict by not being precise in your comment and further alienated yourself by not clarifying as an adult would have done

Get over your righteous indignation, you brought this upon yourself

I am beginning to believe that you possibly meant exactly what others assumed you meant and are back pedaling now that you find the political climate is not friendly to that type of thinking here

 

[budney]

i only posted his name so you could check on the fact that he's from philly, and has written with a liberal slant before.

If you posted his name with the intent that we'd go do some research on his background, then the name hardly "says it all," as you originally stated, since the name only tells us something after researching him further, which we didn't realize you intended us to do.

Here's the scenario:

You: "This is a NYT article written by Hyman Katz. That says it all, really."

Us: "Are you referring to the known bias of the NYT, or are you suggesting that all Jews are anti-RKBA?"

You: "You idiot! I meant that Hyman Katz is married to my sister, and he's a total putz! It's you people who are dragging the Jews into it. Learn to read!"

Us: How the heck were we to know you meant that?

In short, your shrillness is not serving you well. Your original post was unclear, your "clarification" didn't help much, and you're blaming everyone else for making the obvious inference from an unclear bit of writing.

--Len.