elktrout
Member
How difficult is it to glass bed? I have never tried it for fear of creating a bigger problem if I mess it up.
Glass bedding bolt action rifles
- Thread starter elktrout
- Start date
rayatphonix
Member
I did my first earlier this year, and it ended up fine. Take your time and make sure you use enough clay to keep the epoxy out of places you don’t want it. That was my problem, but it was fixed after some frustrating work. It was a learning experience, and I’m glad I did it. The benefits were tremendous and the rifle shoots very, very well now. I’ll do a couple more this winter.
dh1633pm
Contributing Member
Just did a Savage with an aftermarket thumb hole stock. The action would loosen after every shot. The spot for the recoil lug was like the Grand Canyon. Used lots of release agent but it’s still stuck together. Oh well, my bad. Won’t force it til I need to. Went from shooting wild groups to 1.5 or so at 100. Probably do better with some Tailored ammo and not my Garand reloads.
Dave DeLaurant
Member
Maybe start with something less critical to get experience first. Last month I used some Acraglas to take the wiggle out of a Winchester 1906 restocking project -- you can't see the epoxy in this photo, but the before-and-after difference was dramatic.
I like Acraglas Gel -- it's a stiffer mix and doesn't run all over the place. It has a fairly long shelf life unmixed. Buy a bag of popsicle sticks and keep the sticks for the resin and hardener segregated so you don't contaminate the containers. Leave one stick in the leftover epoxy and save it there to gauge how fast the mix has catalyzed.
www.brownells.com
I like Acraglas Gel -- it's a stiffer mix and doesn't run all over the place. It has a fairly long shelf life unmixed. Buy a bag of popsicle sticks and keep the sticks for the resin and hardener segregated so you don't contaminate the containers. Leave one stick in the leftover epoxy and save it there to gauge how fast the mix has catalyzed.
ACRAGLAS GEL SHOP BEDDING KIT | Brownells
Over the years Brownells has had hundreds of customer requests for an epoxy accurizing compound with a butter-smooth consistency which would neither run, drip or leach out from between wood and metal after being placed in the gun stock. After many...
www.brownells.com
jmorris
Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2005
- Messages
- 24,232
I on a savage 110 in 10th grade, it wasn’t that impressive accuracy wise so I cleaned up the inside of the stock a little and bedded the action with JB weld, under Saran Wrap (to isolate the barreled action), tape along the sides of the stock so if any excess came out, it could be pealed off before the epoxy hardened. Been happy with it since.
FWIW I have suspected all of these years that the accuracy improvement was probably more due to free floating the barrel than the bedding but I did them both at the same time. Today, I’d probably do them one at a time just to know for sure.
FWIW I have suspected all of these years that the accuracy improvement was probably more due to free floating the barrel than the bedding but I did them both at the same time. Today, I’d probably do them one at a time just to know for sure.
doubleh
Member
It isn't all that difficult. I use Johnson's paste wax for a release agent and always apply two coats, the second is to make sure I didn't miss a spot anywhere with the first. I learned my lesson the very first one I did by not coating the action screws which resulted in a LOT of extra work to get things right. Any wax or oily substance will act as a release agent. I have tried Pam cooking spray which works but messy, ordinary oil which works, but settled on the Johnson's wax which isn't messy and has never failed. Many use Kiwi shoe polish. Just make sure any thing on the action that can touch the bedding material is coated. Play dough or modeling clay is great for filling holes you want to remain holes and dams to keep the bedding material where you want it .
Might want to pick up one of the bedding "kits" .
Probed2000 is what i generally use, just because one of my favorite places to buy stocks carries it. But there's the acraglass kit from brownells, and at least one more bedding kit but I've seen somewhere.
Advantage to the kits is they come with everything you need.
If I'm just using over the counter stuff I use marine tex gray and automotive wax..... Usually that orange one everybody uses for tumbling brass.... Can't remember what it's called right now.
Bedding your average bolt action rifle isn't that difficult. I've done it enough now I quit even using tape over the edge of the action inlet.
Major points to be aware of.... don't get it into anything that creates mechanical lock, and use enough release agent....
Probed2000 is what i generally use, just because one of my favorite places to buy stocks carries it. But there's the acraglass kit from brownells, and at least one more bedding kit but I've seen somewhere.
Advantage to the kits is they come with everything you need.
If I'm just using over the counter stuff I use marine tex gray and automotive wax..... Usually that orange one everybody uses for tumbling brass.... Can't remember what it's called right now.
Bedding your average bolt action rifle isn't that difficult. I've done it enough now I quit even using tape over the edge of the action inlet.
Major points to be aware of.... don't get it into anything that creates mechanical lock, and use enough release agent....
Heir Kommt Die Sonne
Member
Maybe someone can explain to us the 'Theory of glass bedding' a rifle action, so someone who's a noobie can understand WHAT it is you're trying to do
sage5907
Member
Probably the quickest and easiest change you can make to a bolt action rifle that will really improve performance is to glass bed only the recoil lug. I have done this several time on Winchester Model 70 rifles and have been happy with the result. The Winchester action is flat on the bottom and by being flat it sets firmly in the stock and by bedding the recoil lug it keeps the action from moving side to side or front to back and gives a consistent anchor to the action. I am very particular about making sure the barrel sits in the center of the barrel channel so on a rifle with a free floated barrel I will use a paper shim around the barrel to keep it centered while the glass sets up. I also pay particular attention so when I tighten the trigger guard screws that the trigger guard is positioned where it should be when the glass sets up. The trick is to use just enough glass around the recoil lug to do the job without having excess squeeze forward into the barrel channel or out around the sides of the action. A piece of masking tape on either side of the action will allow the excess glass to be easily trimmed off without affecting the stock finish. After the glass sets up the releasing agent that is applied to the metal will allow the action to come out of the stock when the screws are removed. Sometimes it take a sharp bump with the base of the hand to get the stock to turn loose but that is good because it shows how snug the action is held by the stock.
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Dave DeLaurant
Member
Understanding Barrel Bedding - RifleShooter
Today's factory rifles shoot better than ever before but that's not to say they can't be
www.rifleshootermag.com
At the risk of being called an idiot, the short answer is that glass bedding is one method for achieving a more solid and repeatable marriage between stock and action. There are other methods.
sage5907
Member
No idiot in that reply. The idiot is the one who doesn't read the instructions about using the releasing agent.Understanding Barrel Bedding - RifleShooter
Today's factory rifles shoot better than ever before but that's not to say they can't be
At the risk of being called an idiot, the short answer is that glass bedding is one method for achieving a more solid and repeatable marriage between stock and action. There are other methods.
Megawatt maker
Member
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2017
- Messages
- 699
Use good old fashioned Johnsons paste wax for the release agent.
It's far superior to what you are given in any kits.
Bolt actions are pretty easy and forgiving to bed..and fun!
Bedding an M1A, on the other hand..ugg!
It's far superior to what you are given in any kits.
Bolt actions are pretty easy and forgiving to bed..and fun!
Bedding an M1A, on the other hand..ugg!
Heir Kommt Die Sonne
Member
The ultimate goal
No , the true idiot is the person who thinks glass bedding an action is breaking wine glasses in your bed, and smearing the broken bits into your stock.
EDIT: I do want to ask, was there ever a point where they did use actual glass in rifle stocks to achieve this effect?
Fiberglass and resin, or silica dust in epoxy......
I've pulled apart a couple of different guns and the stock literally fiberglassed under the actions. Fiberglass isn't stupendously strong in compression so it's probably a waste.
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Wood will expand and contract as temperature, humidity and altitude change. It doesn't have to be raining. If I leave my home here in GA at 900' elevation, 85 degrees, and 80% humidity and drive to Colorado where it is 9000' elevation, 25 degrees and 20% humidity the shape of the wood will change. When it does, it places different stresses on the action and barrel causing the point of impact to change. Even if I stay in GA a rifle zeroed in August will impact somewhat different in December.
To bed the stock most people, remove some wood inside the stock to create a loose fit between the action, recoil lug and stock. Liquid fiberglass is poured into the stock and the action is then bolted down until it hardens. A release agent is needed, or you'll permanently glue the action to the stock. This creates a perfect fit and keeps the wood away from the metal. This way the stress on the action is much less as the wood expands and contracts.
Some people full length bed the barrel too. But most free float the barrel to keep it from touching the stock. Done right either way works, but free floating is easier.
There is much less need to bed a QUALITY synthetic stock since you don't have to deal with expansion and contraction due to environmental conditions. But some do to get a tighter fit between action and stock. As a hunter I don't, but for a target shooter trying to squeeze out that last bit of accuracy most do.
BWS
Member
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2017
- Messages
- 763
Here's a simplified,and please don't do this at home,it's for illustration;
Take a tupperware junky plastic factory stock. Say a Rem 700. Ok,from the factory the stock is so flexible that when you bolt the reciever in,it's rubbing,flexing,and just plain not seating well in the connection between reciever and stock's inner profile.
Unscrew the action and place a std paper business card under the chamber area in front of recoil lug, put the whole shebang back together. Go shoot it. It'll probably show better accuracy than the way it came out of the box. You simply ask yourself why,or how.
By elevating the reciever,it creates space under the center/port area. Further,the barrel should be now,up and out of the barrel channel in the forend. You can conceivably quit right there. It's a cheap stock,save your money and buy a better.
But,the point here is back to the business card. Imagine gooping a bunch of epoxy around the prepped/waxed reciever so that when it drys,the reciever now has a perfectly mated surface. Pull the business card and chuck it. Barrel is still up and out.
When you hear the term pillars... they're used instead of the bubba business card. They are infinitely better but take more work. That extra work is probably wasted on this cheap of stock. So try the cards.
Take a tupperware junky plastic factory stock. Say a Rem 700. Ok,from the factory the stock is so flexible that when you bolt the reciever in,it's rubbing,flexing,and just plain not seating well in the connection between reciever and stock's inner profile.
Unscrew the action and place a std paper business card under the chamber area in front of recoil lug, put the whole shebang back together. Go shoot it. It'll probably show better accuracy than the way it came out of the box. You simply ask yourself why,or how.
By elevating the reciever,it creates space under the center/port area. Further,the barrel should be now,up and out of the barrel channel in the forend. You can conceivably quit right there. It's a cheap stock,save your money and buy a better.
But,the point here is back to the business card. Imagine gooping a bunch of epoxy around the prepped/waxed reciever so that when it drys,the reciever now has a perfectly mated surface. Pull the business card and chuck it. Barrel is still up and out.
When you hear the term pillars... they're used instead of the bubba business card. They are infinitely better but take more work. That extra work is probably wasted on this cheap of stock. So try the cards.
sage5907
Member
The reason I like to bed only the recoil lug on a bolt action rifle is that if you bed the action full length you are stuck with that particular action on that particular stock. By bedding only the recoil lug on a Model 70 I can still change stocks. I have even seen the box magazine bedded and I wonder what benefit that serves?
I've glassbedded many rifles over the years and even repaired a badly-broken bolt-action stock, after my son fell on his rifle and cracked the stock in several places. None of the rifles I've bedded shoot worse, but many shoot way better than they ever did before. I subscribe to the theory that the action and a few inches of barrel must be glassbedded, then the barrel should be free-floated beyond that, but the barrel channel can be reinforced with epoxy to stiffen it. I've never had a rifle shoot better before bedding than after, and am pleased that most shoot remarkably better than before.
CZ455 American, .17 HMR with factory - heavy-fluted, free-floated barrel (converting the rifle from .22 WMR). I also bedded the action and tuned the trigger. She shoots great and holds its zero well, year-round.
CZ455 American, .17 HMR with factory - heavy-fluted, free-floated barrel (converting the rifle from .22 WMR). I also bedded the action and tuned the trigger. She shoots great and holds its zero well, year-round.
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lightman
Member
I've free floated and bedded several rifles. Like Picher says, it seldom hurts and often helps. Its not hard but there are a few important things to remember. The most important is release agent. The next important thing is to get all of your prep work done before you mix the putty. I used to use Accuglass from Brownells but have switched to Devcon Plastic Steel Putty 10110. The last numbers are the quantity, 1#, 5#, ect. You mix it to the consistency of peanut butter so its not messy to use and the drying time is long enough to give you time to do a good job.
I use Kewi shoe polish for a release agent and plumbers putty to fill any holes that I don't want bedding compound in. A few wooden tongue depressers or bamboo skewers are handy. Johnsons wax and play doe also work well. For free floating the barrel chanel I use sand paper wrapped around a deep socket. Most sets will contain the desired diameter. On hunting rifles I use a business card for clearance. On varmint or target rifles I do more clearance, like 2 or 3 business cards.
There is an excellent article on the Accurateshooter site by Richard Franklin, stock maker and rifle smith, called "stress free pillar bedding". Its well worth searching for in my opinion.
Good Luck and have fun!
I use Kewi shoe polish for a release agent and plumbers putty to fill any holes that I don't want bedding compound in. A few wooden tongue depressers or bamboo skewers are handy. Johnsons wax and play doe also work well. For free floating the barrel chanel I use sand paper wrapped around a deep socket. Most sets will contain the desired diameter. On hunting rifles I use a business card for clearance. On varmint or target rifles I do more clearance, like 2 or 3 business cards.
There is an excellent article on the Accurateshooter site by Richard Franklin, stock maker and rifle smith, called "stress free pillar bedding". Its well worth searching for in my opinion.
Good Luck and have fun!
epags
Member
Just research the instuctions...read and watch a couple of videos. I am a thick fingered older guy who decided to bed all three Remingtons (243, 30-06 and 7 mm mag. Only place I had was my spouse's art room. Mounted a vice on her art table (without asking....bad decision). Bought a kit from Brownells + clay bars (watch a you tube video to understand). Don't forget to apply release agent liberally.
Piller mounts are an entirely different subject. FWIW I did not go there but the accuracy of all three 'old' rifles ended up 1MOA and less with handloads so I quit there. They are hunting rifles, not competion rifles.
Look at his forum's"Similar threads" for glass bedding
Piller mounts are an entirely different subject. FWIW I did not go there but the accuracy of all three 'old' rifles ended up 1MOA and less with handloads so I quit there. They are hunting rifles, not competion rifles.
Look at his forum's"Similar threads" for glass bedding
doubleh
Member
I have done quite a few over the years and only had one that didn't improve accuracy wise. It was a complete bust but there wasn't much in the way of a stock to work with and the rifle only had one action screw. That soured me on Savage rifles for years. Some only gained only a little but I remember two that had a really big improvement, cutting group sizes by half. Before this system arrived on the scene it took some specialised tools, quite a bit of skill, and lots of time to build an accurate rifle. I built two and not having a lot of spare money I used a candle to blacken the action for fitting, made my channel scraper from scratch, and spent many a long hour poorboying and learning on the go how to do it.. When accra-glass showed up I immediately glass bedded them and the first was where I learned to put release agent on the action screws.
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Random 8
Member
I've done one new stock, old rifle with an accraglass kit. This would be the best approach for a beginner. Follow the directions precisely, especially the bits about the included release agent, and you will likely be pleased with the results.
I've bedded several additional rifles and parts of rifles (and other things) using a Bondo branded 2 part long work time marine epoxy, micro bead bedding compound, and a layout blue/release agent our weld/body shop at work buys in bulk. I like this agent as it is a bright cobalt blue so you can visually confirm coverage and removes easily with mineral spirits or starting fluid. I believe it is Dychem brand.
I've bedded several additional rifles and parts of rifles (and other things) using a Bondo branded 2 part long work time marine epoxy, micro bead bedding compound, and a layout blue/release agent our weld/body shop at work buys in bulk. I like this agent as it is a bright cobalt blue so you can visually confirm coverage and removes easily with mineral spirits or starting fluid. I believe it is Dychem brand.
Neutral shoe polish works well as a release agent as well. I have bedded several older wood stocks that were stout enough to be bedded. Some of the newer plastic stocks are not rigid enough to begin with and bedding will not help it in my opinion. I guess I have gotten lazy and I just replace stocks with ones that have an aluminum bedding block and free float the barrel. I then bed the recoil lug and have had great results. I had one 700 that I replace the barrel with a heavier profile and it took some time to sand the barrel channel to free float the new one. Well worth the price of admission.
