Glock 19 "Compensated" Opinions on Using It for CCW?

[gerrym526]

My wife shot and fell in love with a Glock 19 (gen 3) at a CCW class we took.

In my neighborhood (Socialist Republic of Illinois) 19's of any sort are impossible to find (long backorders). Did find one available at a gunstore I've done business with before-trust them-it's a Gen 3 with a Compensator. Assume they mean the barrel ports that reduce recoil pressure. Up to now my understanding of compensated barrels was that they were typically installed on guns that were going to be used for competitive shooting (e.g. IDPA).
This gun would be my wife's CCW, so I don't really want a "tricked out" target model.
Any help on whether this might be the right gun for her would be appreciated. She's learning how to shoot (NRA instructor course), so not very experienced but the greatly reduced recoil has her very excited in the learning process.
Or, should I just order a standard model 19 Gen 4 and wait a few months for it-not in a big hurry.

Thanks for the help guys.
Gerry

 

[EBShooting]

I would try to get one with a non-ported barrel. Remember, that flash is going to be directly in front of your line of sight. If you shoot it at night, there goes your night vision.

 

[Bovice]

Ported barrels of any kind are not permitted in IDPA. But, if you have a G19C and want the functional equivalent of a standard G19, just put in a standard barrel.

 

[mljdeckard]

Yep. try it at night before you decide.

 

[Takem406]

I would try to get one with a non-ported barrel. Remember, that flash is going to be directly in front of your line of sight. If you shoot it at night, there goes your night vision.

Except the guys who own C model Glocks and actually shoot them say this is not an issue. Besides if it's that dark you'll have your flashlight out as well. And if you get jumped at night the BG will most likely be close enough that you'll have to shoot "retention style" from the hip. Your pistol is canted outward so no port flare will get you and you won't get blinded...

I'm buying a 23c. I've spent the past week researching them.

It seems like there's a lot of BS from people who haven't shot them who are speculating about possible bogus problems.

But there's several good YouTube movies and I've even seen cops writing on the C models. They bust all the myths.

I'm really excited to get mine in the next couple weeks and see what they are about.

Less muzzle flip? Heck yeah Ill go for that. That means faster double taps and funner range time. I'm actually excited to let my wifey shoot my 23c when I get it. From what I've seen on YouTube they are tamed to like a soft 9mm. Not bad for a 40!

Glory to America has an excellent movie on YouTube!

One guy tested to see how much energy is lost with a ported barrel. It's like 6 percent. Not a big deal for me because my defense loads are already going at 1400. But it was a cool well did movie.

A 19C "should" be a really soft gun to shoot! You can always trade it or buy a standard barrel.

Good luck!

In God and Glock we Trust

 

[Inebriated]

Yeah, it'll have some flash, but as long as the grip is concealable, another half-inch on the end of the barrel won't really affect concealability, IMO.

 

[ljnowell]

I've owned ported semi-autos and shot them in the dark. The flash people describe is greatly exaggerated.

More than likely its a factory comp'd gun, so no barrel sticking out past slide, at least no more than usual.

 

[Inebriated]

The flash people describe is greatly exaggerated.

Yes, but it's still something to be mindful of.

More than likely its a factory comp'd gun, so no barrel sticking out past slide, at least no more than usual.

You're probably right, didn't think about that.

 

[Snowdog]

Man, that recoil and flip on the G19 is something fierce!

No, I would recommend against anything compensated unless we're talking a 3" .357magnum snub or some such beast.

I have fired a compensated Glock 19 and found it offered incredibly little over the G19 I owned at the time.

 

[HKGuns]

A ported 9mm may just be the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

 

[CDW4ME]

I have a 19c and wouldn't worry about carrying it for SD.

Muzzle flash (whether compensated or not) varies with different brands, some have more than others.

I have not shot my 19c at low light; but, I did shoot my 30SF (45 acp) and my handload with AA#5 produced a noticeable flash, but some Remington "green box" fired a minute later did not.

I guess a person could get burned by gases from the ports if the pistol was against your body, but that would go both ways and your attacker could also get burned from a contact shot.

The ports reduce recoil and velocity; generally speaking, my 19C produces about the same velocity as a Glock 26. If I carried it, I would load it with Ranger T 124 gr. +P or 127 gr. +P+ so velocity wouldn't be lacking.

Here is a link where someone posted a pic of shooting a compensated Glock in a indoor range, you can see what the flash actually looks like.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1458618&highlight=19c

 

[Charles S]

It seems like there's a lot of BS from people who haven't shot them who are speculating about possible bogus problems.

But there's several good YouTube movies and I've even seen cops writing on the C models. They bust all the myths.

I cannot imagine a well trained police officer using any ported pistol.

The flash is not a problem.

The problem arises when you train...I assume you train... for different scenarios.

One of the positions I have been trained to shoot from in multiple corses is called the retention position. I hope I never have to shoot from that position, but statistics show a large number of confrontations take place at contact distance.

I would never shoot a compensated or ported pistol from the retention position. Nor would I recommend anyone else try it.

If the gun is not for self defense...then fine. If it is consider that. A course or two in the use of a handgun for self defense is quite enlightening. It shows a lot of what the "expert" gun writers worry about are irrelevant.

I really enjoy a shooting course.

 

[Shipwreck]

Yes, I agree with Charles on the retention position issue. He beat me to it...

 

[dprice3844444]

i have 2 and have shot them in low light conditions,you cannot see the flash,it happens so quickly,your eye cannot detect anything let alone react to the light.with the advent of today's powders,flash is minimal.where the comp gun really shines is double/triple taps.minimal rise.if you have a dd214,try a police distributor as you can prob get police price on it

 

[David E]

I cannot imagine a well trained police officer using any ported pistol.

You should get out more, and/or do some research into the matter.

I would never shoot a compensated or ported pistol from the retention position.

I have. Not a biggie.

Nor would I recommend anyone else try it.

Your idle speculation on the matter is not supported by the facts.

(Take) a course or two in the use of a handgun for self defense. It shows a lot of what the "expert" gun writers worry about are irrelevant.

Yeah, even the "experts" that post their idly speculated opinions on the Internet that have no basis in fact.

OP, I'd rather get a gun NOW (especially a hicap, especially in Illinois) even if it's a ported "C" model. Use quality ammo for defense and the flash concern goes away. Practice in low light so you/she knows what to expect so you/she can ignore it. Tuck the elbow into your side keeping the wrist straight and fire a few rds, as that'll dispel the needless concerns of firing a "C" model from the retention position. If the port blast isn't something you want to deal with, you can always get an unported barrel later.

If its a FACTORY correct Glock 19-C get the gun now. It'll say 19-C on the slide. If it started out as a regular Glock and now has ports or an added/bolted on compensator, keep looking.

 

[Jim Watson]

...a Compensator. Assume they mean the barrel ports that reduce recoil pressure.

Why are you assuming anything? Have you not seen the gun?
A factory G19C has holes in the barrel and slots in the slide.
That is OK. Port flash is overrated; a shooter here - a very well trained LEO with a famous agency - uses one. Shooting indoors I see that the port flash with good quality ammo is no worse than muzzle flash with cheap ammo, if that. And he doesn't complain about getting singed by the flash.

If she found it undesirable for some reason, a straight barrel will drop right in.

If the gun in question has an add on muzzle brake compensator, give it a pass. Who knows what other tinkering might have been done.

 

[Charles S]

You should get out more, and/or do some research into the matter.

I get out quite a bit and have shot a fair number of training courses. No city or state agency in Texas, Louisiana, or Arkansas issues ported weapons. Feel free to cite an agency that does.

I would never shoot a compensated or ported pistol from the retention position.

I have. Not a biggie.

In one course I took we shot down a simulated hallway with our carry gun and ammo combo. We shot this with, of course, hearing and eye protection. It was an eye opener. I found there was a noticeable difference in what I felt with a high pressure round and a low pressure round.

Tuck the elbow into your side keeping the wrist straight and fire a few rds, as that'll dispel the needless concerns of firing a "C" model from the retention position. If the port blast isn't something you want to deal with, you can always get an unported barrel later.

To be realistic try that in a closed in space not a range with no ceiling. I saw ceiling material raining down after shooting short barred 357. I cannot imagine shooting a ported weapon inside. Especially without hearing protection.

Yeah, even the "experts" that post their idly speculated opinions on the Internet that have no basis in fact.

I have never claimed to be an expert, but I have shot under a number of people who do claim to be. With the experience to back it. When the question came up in class, not a single instructor I have been under including some names you might recognize recommended it.

Of course you may know more than the late Cirrilo, the enjoyable Mr. Ayoob, Mr. Clint Smith.....

 

[Sam1911]

I've shot plenty of compensated/ported guns, both indoors and out. Some were ok. Some just crazy.

A good pal bought a heavily ported SIG 220 .45 that was so NUTS we'd call in everyone around to watch the fireworks. Looked like an unlimited-class funny car spitting a row of flames from open headers!

I don't like compensated or ported guns at all, and wouldn't choose to own one (unless some day I get into Open-class competition but that's a whole different set of questions) but if all you can find is a ported G19c, that's better than no gun at all.

Here's a video of a G19c: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIh_8sclYOI

You can see the flame/blast very clearly. Decide for yourself if that's cool with you.

 

[Armed 24/7]

I had a Gen 2 23c about 15 years ago, and bought it brand new. I really liked it, and I wish I had never sold it to a friend of mine who just adored it. I too read all about the "blinding flash" from the ports at night. When I tried it with WWB on a moonless night with no other light around, all you see is a quick"V" of flash from the ports in addiction to the muzzle flash. I then tried it with a premium brand of HP ammo, the flash was greatly reduced to a non issue. It all comes down to the flash properties of the powder in the round.
On the Plus side, I really liked the reduced muzzle flip, and would not hesitate to get one again. I think that a 19c would be about perfect for a new shooter.

 

[David E]

I get out quite a bit and have shot a fair number of training courses. No city or state agency in Texas, Louisiana, or Arkansas issues ported weapons. Feel free to cite an agency that does.

Edmond PD in OK does.

In one course I took we shot down a simulated hallway with our carry gun and ammo combo. We shot this with, of course, hearing and eye protection. It was an eye opener. I found there was a noticeable difference in what I felt with a high pressure round and a low pressure round.

Point?

To be realistic try that in a closed in space not a range with no ceiling.

The indoor ranges I've done that at DO have ceilings.

I saw ceiling material raining down after shooting short barreled .357.

Maybe a better/newer range is in order.

I cannot imagine shooting a ported weapon inside. Especially without hearing protection.

First you argue ports suck when firing from retention, now you're arguing blast. I'd rather shoot a 23-C indoors than a snubnose magnum with full house loads.

When the question came up in class, not a single instructor I have been under including some names you might recognize recommended it.

Jim Cirillo liked lasers on his guns, but I'm sure other noted "experts" wouldn't recommend them. Did that make Jim wrong?

Of course you may know more than the late Cirrilo, the enjoyable Mr. Ayoob, Mr. Clint Smith.....

I've taken classes with Jim and Mas and others, learning quite a bit. But that doesn't mean they know everything

Look, don't get a "C" model if you don't want one. But don't cite a reason that just isn't so as your justification.

 

[2zulu1]

I cannot imagine a well trained police officer using any ported pistol.

The flash is not a problem.

The problem arises when you train...I assume you train... for different scenarios.

One of the positions I have been trained to shoot from in multiple corses is called the retention position. I hope I never have to shoot from that position, but statistics show a large number of confrontations take place at contact distance.

I would never shoot a compensated or ported pistol from the retention position. Nor would I recommend anyone else try it.

If the gun is not for self defense...then fine. If it is consider that. A course or two in the use of a handgun for self defense is quite enlightening. It shows a lot of what the "expert" gun writers worry about are irrelevant.

I really enjoy a shooting course.

I have to disagree with your statement about shooting a ported barrel from retention causing whatever. Back in the day Bill Jordan's style of shooting greatly influenced our training, in fact, shooting "from the hip" was part of our POST quals.

The gases escaping, and reacting with air, through the cylinder gap of this 686P/6" greatly exceeds anything one will experience with a 9mm ported barrel.



Notice that the gases escaping through the muzzle exhibited very low flash. Curious as to how these cylinder gap gases affected inanimate objects, I held the 686P parallel with cardboard backed paper targets. At 12" there was no effect, adjacent to the target and the gases created a ragged 6"-7" rip in the cardboard, but no burn residue on the paper target.

I expect if someone with a ported 9mm barrel anchored a swath of fabric 6" above the ports, the fabric would retain its integrity.

A Power Pistol load in 45 auto reacting with air created this huge muzzle flash;



Now a full power 10mm handload with IMR 800X;



As we can observe with the full power 10mm load, muzzle flash in complete darkness, same complete darkness with the above two tests, is very low. Since there is only so much powder gas that reacts with air, the V porting will reduce muzzle flash in the 10mm. The gases escaping through the ports can't increase the muzzle flash effect, in reality, flash is now witnessed at three separate locations.

For the OP, there aren't any serious drawbacks in buying the G19C for personal defense.

 

[hentown]

Yeah, it'll have some flash, but as long as the grip is concealable, another half-inch on the end of the barrel won't really affect concealability, IMO.

Have you ever seen a ported Glock??

 

[TonyDedo]

Ported barrels aren't a great idea for CCW.

First there's the muzzle flash issue. There are plenty of tough guys out there who say it's not a problem, but I would shoot the gun and see for yourself before you buy it or try to carry it. I had a ported 1911 officer model, and it looked like a dragon in my hands (yet I noticed no difference in recoil). May not be the best thing for a new shooter.

The other problem is that if this is a defensive pistol for CCW, you may find yourself in close quarters or firing from a non traditional grip and stance, and those ports can be dangerous. This is why it's ported barrels are not permitted in IDPA.

And from a practical perspective, the added length and weight are going to make the gun less comfortable to carry, and may give you trouble coming in and out of a holster.

It may also affect resale value, as a lot of people shy away from comped barrels.

Your best bet is to either a) buy the gun and replace the barrel with a standard barrel, or b) wait for a standard Glock 19.

 

[Charles S]

There are plenty of tough guys out there who say it's not a problem, but I would shoot the gun and see for yourself before you buy it or try to carry it. I had a ported 1911 officer model, and it looked like a dragon in my hands (yet I noticed no difference in recoil). May not be the best thing for a new shooter.

That sums it up nicely. Everyone has an opinion. I would read up on what experts on self defense have to say about a ported gun and try it. I do not recommend it.

The other problem is that if this is a defensive pistol for CCW, you may find yourself in close quarters or firing from a non traditional grip and stance, and those ports can be dangerous. This is why it's ported barrels are not permitted in IDPA.

It is fine on a range, but may not be fine in real life.

Edmond PD in OK does.

So you have named one. I do find it interesting that no Federal law enforcement agency chooses to. To my knowledge no State agency does, nor do the larger police departments. Maybe there is nothing to that. Let the reader be the judge.

To my knowledge no well known trainer or defense expert recommends a ported handgun. Although I will qualify that with the fact that I have limited resources and rarely take more than one class a year and although I have an extensive library on the subject I may be missing a will known expert.... Again, let the reader decide.

First you argue ports suck when firing from retention, now you're arguing blast. I'd rather shoot a 23-C indoors than a snubnose magnum with full house loads.

Maybe I did not articulate my position well, but is has always been about blast. Ports suck from a retention position because the blast is directed at your face. I agree with you however and after my class where we shot in a three dimensional indoors "house" with ceilings I changed a lot about what I do. Prior to that I often carried a Ruger SP101 with full house loads. I now use that more for hiking and woods carry now.

As for flash... after my very first night course I realized muzzle flash as a reason not to choose a gun was overstated. A shooter can use his flash to refine his sight picture. There are of course down sides also.

Jim Cirillo liked lasers on his guns, but I'm sure other noted "experts" wouldn't recommend them. Did that make Jim wrong?

I think LASERS are a useful tool as long as they don't become a crutch. I honestly thing Mr. Cirillo was ahead of his time. LASERS are used in close quarters combat by our military now.

Look, don't get a "C" model if you don't want one. But don't cite a reason that just isn't so as your justification.

I own a ported Glock 40 long slide and a Glock 23. To say there is not an increased blast with the ported gun is just not true. My justification is too much muzzle blast, but then again....
2zulu1,

Great pics, but hardly scientific. On the general post I agree, but that is why I don't carry a 357 magnum either.

Charles

 

[tarosean]

The flash people describe is greatly exaggerated.

Depends on ammo used.

Cannot remember which magazine it was, but in a recent article they shot a revolver and a couple pistols at night. The same guns produced everything from huge fireballs to barely noticeable discharge.