Glock 19. My first Glock. My first impressions

[matrem]

Post # 18 does not mirror my experience either.

A couple years back I was working with one woman and two teen age boys on the same afternoon.
I'd supplied two 1911s, a G19, and two XDs. The teens mom had brought me her Beretta 92, and I had a borrowed M&P there as well.
The oldest teen and myself had no issues with any of the pistols, but the lady & the younger teen each had a few issues with at least one of the 1911s, and both had issues with the 92, and none with any of the "plastic" ones.
After having them hold the unloaded steel pistols and me tapping the muzzle several times while explaining what they should be controlling, both were able to shoot the Beretta & 1911s with no further issues that day.

 

[Zerodefect]

If you shot the same ammo without problem, its operator error. Part limp wrist, although I have tried to induce it with my Glocks and havent been able to. Also, she maybe anticipating the recoil and causing exagerated limp wristing, which results in stove pipes?

As to Glocks not biting, this is false, well known phenomena know as "Glock Bite." After 350 to 450 rounds through multiple Glocks, I usually have a very small slightly bleeding slice on top of my thumb knuckle closet to the hand. I grab really high and if thumb isnt just right, there is slight contact. After hundreds of rounds its a small cut. Mine are Gen 3 Glocks, maybe Gen 4 have more protection? No big deal. Basically a small, very small cut on top of a callous. More of a "wear groove" than a cut...

I've had that and seen it on others.

I think it's more of a frame rub during recoil. Not the slide pinching anything. I've seen very bony old lady hands get this rub.

We couldn't stretch and try to force flesh all the way up to the slide. Her hands were just too small to ever get bit by the slide.

My chunky hands can almost make it high enough to get bit, but I'd have to gain 100 pounds of flab to get my hands fat enough to get bit. And the striker is the only edge that's sharp on the slide, and it's another 2mm up to that.

It's a Glock frame rub, not slide bite.

 

[tertule033]

Congrats on the Glock 19! I have sweaty palm problems so I put Talon tape on all my Glocks. It really helps me keep some good leverage on the grip. On my carry gun I use the rubber version so it's not so abrasive on my skin, but it still give a solid enough grip. For me the tape makes a HUGE difference.

 

[Tinker]

The only few malfunctions I've seen in my G27, G23 was when I first handed them to my wife and daughter. The ammo was also WWB. My daughter had two malfunctions on the first shots. She was scared to shoot anything more powerful than the .22. Told her to get a firm grip on it. She did and has shot it malfunction free ever since.

My wife got slide bit on the first shot. I'd showed her the thumbs forward grip beforehand, but she reverted to her revolver grip and snuck her thumb around out of habit before she touched it off. Next shot, after nursing her wound she was gripping it too loose and low. Stove piped. Soon as I showed her how to tuck her strong hand up where it is supposed to be with a proper grip she shot it well. So well that she confiscated it and donated her trusty .38 to our daughter.

 

[JohnnyBravo]

I have had three G19's and have never been able to get one to fail due to limp wristing even though I have tried my best.

Even the early Gen 4 with the earliest recoil spring wouldn't succumb to limp wristing.

I do know a lady that had issues limp wristing her Gen 3 G19, but she shot two mine just fine. I was able to replicate her problem with her gun.

My take is some guns are more prone to this malfunction than others (for whatever reason - tolerance stacking?) so I would focus on the gun and try to find out what is going on with it.

 

[mldk]

No problem with your glock...operator error. Get your girl some training and let her pick a gun she is comfortable with. Just got a glock 19 gen4 on through blue label...and I'm not even a glock fan. Good gun, but I'll stick to my CZ. Let your girl shoot a sig, cz, Beretta, etc. You might be surprised what works for her.

 

[Jesse H]

Another vote for working on grip technique.

We have several smaller females at my agency, one is barely 5" tall and maybe 110 lbs and she has no issues with her G22.

 

[RussellC]

I've had that and seen it on others.

I think it's more of a frame rub during recoil. Not the slide pinching anything. I've seen very bony old lady hands get this rub.

We couldn't stretch and try to force flesh all the way up to the slide. Her hands were just too small to ever get bit by the slide.

My chunky hands can almost make it high enough to get bit, but I'd have to gain 100 pounds of flab to get my hands fat enough to get bit. And the striker is the only edge that's sharp on the slide, and it's another 2mm up to that.

It's a Glock frame rub, not slide bite.

No, its the slide, but it is a "wear" groove. I notice between my Gen 3 G17 and 30S, which has the slide of the 36 and the 30 SF bottom, one or the other is "Closer" to the wear groove than the other....just checked. Its the G17. Again, I grab fairly high, and this is after several hundred rounds. But it is from the slide for sure on me. If anyone uninitiated grabs most ANY semi auto incorrectly, they can bite. Ask the range officers where you shoot. I've seen people "getting the feel" of a gun in a shop and actually put their thumb on the back of the slide...

Russellc

 

[tarosean]

. My girlfirend's solution is to work on her hand a wrist strength. I'd like to see her take a formal defensive handgun class, or at least go out and shoot with people more experienced than me.

If she is to be the primary end user, perhaps you might want to pick a gun she can operate without issues.

While my 5' nothing 110# wife chose a G19c as her CCW weapon. She did take a class from an NRA certified instructor before settling on it. I had zero say so in the matter.. Which is how it should be, cause I certainly wouldnt have chosen it...

 

[sgt127]

I don't know how big her hands are. If she is having to hold the gun sideways to reach the trigger, she'll never get a good grip on the gun and will likely continue to have malfunctions. And, that's ok. Not all guns work for all people.

If things don't improve, or, it's obvious she just can't get a good grip on a Glock. Look at a Kahr K9. All stainless. But one of the greatest grips I've ever felt (I too have dainty little hands). It's very "Glock like" in function. No safety, no decockers etc. the weight will also help immensely in reliability. Another fine single stack is a Sig P239. With the DAK trigger, it's also a simple point and shoot gun.

If you're anywhere in the DFW Texas area, holler. She's welcome to go try out anything I have.

 

[abq87120]

My wife just ordered a new G19 Gen3 through GSSF. She has many years experience shooting. But, our shooting instructors who own an indoor range warned her against a Gen4. Their observation was that many, many women have stovepipe issues with the Gen4 G19. Just their observations of course. No flaming please.

 

[Big C!]

Just bought my first glock last week! Gen3 g19, so far I love it. Went out shot at 25 yards and it's dead on. No FTF,FTE,Or stove piping!! So far I see why it's so popular!! Been carrying a sig sp2022 for a while now and it's just a little heavier than the g19. So now I have a new EDC!!!

 

[tipoc]

The guy I bought it from is an LEO with about 30 years of experience. He warned me that any propensity to limp-wrist by the shooter would cause stovepipes with this gun. He was spot on. My girlfirend's solution is to work on her hand a wrist strength.

So wait!?!

You bought a used Glock from a guy who warned you that it may have stovepipes due to limp wristing. Interesting.

I wonder, did you ask him about limp wristing problems with Glocks? Or did he just offer this information.

While Glocks are prone to this type problem, compared to some other makes, it can be overcome. Is more about training then strength though. It's about keeping the wrist rigid. Children have been able to do this once they feel the technique.

tipoc

 

[Zerodefect]

No, its the slide, but it is a "wear" groove. I notice between my Gen 3 G17 and 30S, which has the slide of the 36 and the 30 SF bottom, one or the other is "Closer" to the wear groove than the other....just checked. Its the G17. Again, I grab fairly high, and this is after several hundred rounds. But it is from the slide for sure on me. If anyone uninitiated grabs most ANY semi auto incorrectly, they can bite. Ask the range officers where you shoot. I've seen people "getting the feel" of a gun in a shop and actually put their thumb on the back of the slide...

Russellc

Cool. Thanks. There's no way I can get my hand pinched by the slide on my Gen3 G23. As high as I can go , I'm still 1/4" from the bottom of the slide. I have a real aggressive, over exaggerated high tang grip. Even dragging my thumbs on the slide from time to time.

And on my Gen4 I'm running the beaver tail, so that can't bite at all. Except for the recoil rub with the .40's and 45's.




OP: The Gen3 19 and 23 share the same recoil spring. If youre shooting weaker 9mm ammo, it'll short stroke. Sometimes it'll even fail to lock back on the last round.

Try factory Federal ammo to buiild her confidence, and save the reloads for later. I've seen failures are with WWB, Fiocchi, PMC or some kind of weak loaded and/or steel cased ammo when combined with limp wristing. Try brass Federal and see what happens. A fresh Gen4 magazine might help as well. Did she get to try the Hornady defense ammo? If she's got a firm grip on the pistol, that ammo should do the rest.

A slightly softer recoil spring might be ok. I'll let the 9mm guys chime in on that. With the 40's, I considered a stiffer spring, but never needed it. So if it's a 4, you might want to check part #'s. My Gen4 G23 is much stiffer than my Gen3 G23. Too stiff to run 9mm maybe.

 

[Warp]

It isn't grip strength, really, it's not having the mass of your arm behind the recoil of the gun. I've tried to limp wrist multiple 9mm Glocks by holding them as loose as I dared without risking an ND in a bad direction and can't get them to malf even on WWB 115gr FMJ. I'm told it's behind I need to turn the gun so that it's shooting into my thumb and basically nothing else.

Simply using ammo that has a little more pep...more in line with a defensive round...may do it. A lot of the inexpensive/cheap (esp US manufactured) 115gr FMJ is just so under-whelming in the energy department.

 

[Trent]

Yeah I have a real hard time getting a Glock to stovepipe, too even when I'm shooting weak side with a relatively weak grip.

If the person is squeezing too much with their hands and not at all firming up their wrists, or the angle is such that the recoil isn't driving back in to their arm bones (alignment), then yeah.. it'll cause the gun to catch it's brass.

But weak wrists aren't the cause of that, bad grip is.

There should be no 'sqeezing' in of the thumb - zero pressure on the sides of the gun. The only pressure you apply to a pistol in a 2 handed grip is the flats of the fingers pushing front strap backwards against the back strap in your palm. Thumbs are relaxed, fingertips are relaxed... if you add any 'side tension' your groups will look like shotgun patterns or you'll pull your whole group off-center, as the gun will move one way or another during lockup time.

Wrists don't have to be too tight (you don't want to induce any tremors) BUT the gun and arms need to be aligned properly, and the elbows bent ever so slightly to absorb the recoil.

I see a lot of women lock their elbows when I teach classes. Instead of letting their arms (elbows) soak up a little of the recoil, the gun jumps up instead of pushing back. With the elbows locked there's no give. They need to work as shock absorbers.

 

[tipoc]

Regarding limpwristing and Glocks, here is one video of many on the subject. Follow this and see more.

https://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=mcafee&type=B211US105D20140728&p=glock+and+limpwristing

"Wimpy" American ammo is not the cause or a problem. Neither do you have to fire the most powerful ammo that you can find. Both ideas are incorrect.

It's also incorrect to believe that one must be particularly strong to fire a semi reliably.

Semi-auto pistol require a stable platform on which the slide can move and do it's job. With steel framed guns the weight of the frame and of the slide, helps to maintain the stability of the frame during firing. With the lighter weight of polymer frames they can be more inclined to move underneath the slide during shooting and thus not provide a stable platform and lead to shortstroking and/or stovepipes. The weight of the slide in relation to the frame is greater with Glocks than with some other guns and so it has a reputation for stovepiping if not properly held.

The solution is to maintain a stable platform by not allowing the wrist to break during firing and by maintaining a firm hold. This is a technique that is "natural" to some but that for others requires attention.

tipoc