Glock 19 & safety
- Thread starter HKcenterMass
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GunNut
Member
I was kinda thinking these two could get together and have a cock fight....
Then we'd know if HKcenterMass could get a Glock or HK or ?
HKcenterMass,
You still there? or did this 4 rules of gun safety debate turn you into a anti-gunner?
So what direction are you leaning?
Steve
Then we'd know if HKcenterMass could get a Glock or HK or ?
HKcenterMass,
You still there? or did this 4 rules of gun safety debate turn you into a anti-gunner?
So what direction are you leaning?
Steve
ACP
Member
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2002
- Messages
- 1,334
I carried a Glock 19 for several years in a Blade Tech OWB holster and never gave it a second thought. Wonderful design, and you have three trigger options. I wouldn't carry any gun in a pocket or on the waistband w/o a holster; not so much for safety, but for positioning and getting a full grip on the draw.
Personally I wouldn't add any aftermarket safety. Those PDs that have, or are considering it, are likely being driven by lawyers and insurance companies. Plus, they have varied forces, including some that probably don't like handguns.
I'd get the Glock and a good holster. Your concerns sound like those of some 1911 afficiandos (myself included) who worry about cocked and locked. There are tradeoffs. The Glock is simple to operate, same trigger pull, lightweight, rust resistant.
Personally I wouldn't add any aftermarket safety. Those PDs that have, or are considering it, are likely being driven by lawyers and insurance companies. Plus, they have varied forces, including some that probably don't like handguns.
I'd get the Glock and a good holster. Your concerns sound like those of some 1911 afficiandos (myself included) who worry about cocked and locked. There are tradeoffs. The Glock is simple to operate, same trigger pull, lightweight, rust resistant.
El Tejon
Member
Ahhh, come on, guys. We know how serious the Four Rules are; we read about violations here on THR all the time (often tragic). As a new shooter, HK must know how serious they are. Once he learns this, he will no longer have the concerns he does have.
H
Handy
Guest
Why is there always the assumption that if your forebrain knows a rule, your cerebellum is always going to follow it?
El Tejon
Member
Handy, no such assumption. That's why we train. To program the default settings of the computer.
H
Handy
Guest
Like I pointed out earlier, 90% of that training is pulling the trigger, which is muscle memory. The part of the training that keeps your finger off the trigger is largely higher brain decision making. The two are at odds, your finger seeks the trigger, your brain tells it to wait.
That is the true function of a heavier (DA) trigger or a manual safety; something that provides resistance to muscle memory and unconscious reaction so your brain can get back in the game.
The point about the holster as a safety with the Glock is a good one. But what happens if you draw your weapon and must hang on to it for awhile? I think this is the situation where police are most likely to have Glock NDs; running or waiting with pistol in hand.
Not that you'll be convinced, but as a military pilot I've spent hundreds of hours JUST practicing Emergency Procedures. I've seen enough well trained pilots screw up under stress to know that training is only one element in preventing the wrong control input. I am now convinced that everyone could use some backup to keep their reactions from overriding their decisions. We employ many such backups in aviation.
I just don't think the standard Glock trigger provides much backup at all.
That is the true function of a heavier (DA) trigger or a manual safety; something that provides resistance to muscle memory and unconscious reaction so your brain can get back in the game.
The point about the holster as a safety with the Glock is a good one. But what happens if you draw your weapon and must hang on to it for awhile? I think this is the situation where police are most likely to have Glock NDs; running or waiting with pistol in hand.
Not that you'll be convinced, but as a military pilot I've spent hundreds of hours JUST practicing Emergency Procedures. I've seen enough well trained pilots screw up under stress to know that training is only one element in preventing the wrong control input. I am now convinced that everyone could use some backup to keep their reactions from overriding their decisions. We employ many such backups in aviation.
I just don't think the standard Glock trigger provides much backup at all.
El Tejon
Member
Handy, when running or waiting or at all other times, Rule #3 is in effect. The Captain always has the Four Rules light on.
Po-po were having NDs with revovlers long before the EastEmpire plastice piece came along. They weren't following Rule #3 with M66s either.
You're right though. My understanding is that years back they did teach scans and sweeps with the finger on the trigger (yikes) and maybe an extra few pounds of trigger pull would avert a tragedy. However, I would argue training always beats mechanical gizmos. YMMV.
Po-po were having NDs with revovlers long before the EastEmpire plastice piece came along. They weren't following Rule #3 with M66s either.
You're right though. My understanding is that years back they did teach scans and sweeps with the finger on the trigger (yikes) and maybe an extra few pounds of trigger pull would avert a tragedy. However, I would argue training always beats mechanical gizmos. YMMV.
H
Handy
Guest
I'm sorry, it was my understanding that some of the worst ND stats occured after transitioning from revolvers, to Glocks. DC police come to mind.
It's hard to think of directions in a city that a gun could be "safely" pointed.
It's hard to think of directions in a city that a gun could be "safely" pointed.
.45Ruger
Member
If you really want a gun with an extenal safety that is fine. The trick is buy one make that way. After market parts put on a gun not designed for them just complicate things. Better to find a 9mm you can shoot well that was designed with an external safety.
HKcenterMass
Member
HKcenterMass, You still there? or did this 4 rules of gun safety debate turn you into a anti-gunner?
Yes sir, i'm still here. I realllly like that g19, and i agree, safe gun handling is the best safety...but admitidly i've done some pretty numb skull things...not with guns, little things, like being in a daze and blowing through a red light... with guns, i have a heightened sense, more so than anyone i've seen at the range, but i cant help but think of that one in a million opps.
Yes sir, i'm still here. I realllly like that g19, and i agree, safe gun handling is the best safety...but admitidly i've done some pretty numb skull things...not with guns, little things, like being in a daze and blowing through a red light... with guns, i have a heightened sense, more so than anyone i've seen at the range, but i cant help but think of that one in a million opps.
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