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Glock and Walther PPSs are no good for CC heres why

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by newmenu, Feb 19, 2009.

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  1. newmenu

    newmenu Member

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    I just dont like striker-fire guns for DC. the glock is the shovel of auto pistols and the PPS is a great ultra concealable gun, but as wonderfully great they may seem for DC, that striker-fire system makes them a no go imo. fact is, if you are unlucky enought to have to use your CC gun to defend yourself, then you may just be unlucky enough to have a dud chambered and ready to fail you.

    now if you have a DA/SA or DA only gun, you can simply pull the trigger again and 99.999% of the time that will make the dud fire and boom your back in action.

    sure you can say, well, all Id have to do is pull the slide back and load another round. great! but what if your off hand is unavailable? what if all you have is 1/2 second to react? you can pull that trigger 3 or 4 times in a second easy, can you pull the trigger, action the slide(assuming your off hand is available) and pull the trigger again in 1/2 second?

    just my $0.02

    now let the hate pour on in I can already feel it coming:cool:
     
  2. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    Could you please provide a link showing a valid source for this statistic? My experience differs, although I've never done any scientific, nor pseudo-scientific, research on the matter.
    What happens in that situation when your restrike doesn't work, or you have some other malfunction like a FTE or Failure to Feed after you fire the first round? The good old Tap, Rack, Roll clearance drill, in my experience, generally solves the problem.
    Yes, I can, as can most folks here who even a minimum amount of training.

    I have a little more news for you: The handgun with longest combat service record, the M1911, doesn't have restrike capability without manually cocking the hammer. The FN/Browning GP35/Hi Power, also with an impressive combat record, operates the same. Every major assault and main battle rifle that I know of also lack restrike capability.

    Of course, it's your gunfight, so equip yourself with whatever you feel best meets your needs.
     
  3. heavyshooter

    heavyshooter Member

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    WOW!!! Ahhhhh, I don't know what your goal is here, but this has the potential to get pretty heated. I’m glad I got here early so I have a chance to respond before the fireworks.

    While I am not a big fan of Glock, the striker is not my issue (I don't like the grip angle). If you have a dud your immediate reaction should be “tap, rack, fire.” I don't care if I have a hammer or a striker; that is the proper remedy to a bad round.

    I noticed that you presented a scenario in which my off hand is not available to rack the slide. First of all, that is a very rare scenario. Second, there is a means of racking a slide without the spare arm; that's what belts are for. Third, you are not applying such rare scenarios to yourself. For example, there are duds that will not fire no matter how often they are struck. In fact, this is much more likely than the loss of my spare arm. So your ability to pull the trigger repeatedly is moot. In this situation the proper response is the same as a striker fired gun; “tap, rack, fire.”

    Now I am going to get out of the way because boy you 'bout to start some mess. :D:D:D
     
  4. legion3

    legion3 Member

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    This was the only thing of value you wrote.


    You do know that cops who carry Glocks are taught how to rack the slide with only 1 hand.



    :barf:
     
  5. TexasRedneck

    TexasRedneck Member

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    Sorry....but as others have already pointed out, you're all wet. Especially if you get into a FF with that idea. You'll still be clickin' when others would have already cleared the round and finished the job at hand.
     
  6. Davionmaximus

    Davionmaximus Member

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    SECURITY!!!! lol

    Glocks are DA action only... FYI

    Any semi auto suffers from the above described issue. Dud = no bang>> No fully understanding what hitting a dud again will do...
     
  7. Storm

    Storm Member

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    No, that probably isn't the case, at least at that percentage or anywhere near it. And while second strike capability is touted as a big advantage by some, I think the better course of action is to tap, rack the gun bringing up a fresh round where the chance of a second dud is virtually zero, unless of course your gun has firing pin issues, in which case you might as well just throw the danged thing.

    All of this is open to debate, and often is.
     
  8. jtemple

    jtemple Member

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    This.

    I have fired many rounds through both types of pistols. My experience has been that a re-pull of a trigger very rarely fires a bad round. I'm not going to waste my time trying, when I can eject the bad round and try again on a fresh one.

    The only time my Glock has failed to fire a chambered round is with Winchester WinClean. I don't know what it is with those primers, but my Glock sure doesn't agree with them.
     
  9. burningsquirrels

    burningsquirrels Member

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    sounds like a personal preference and rant.

    train your tap rack bang and one handed gun handling.

    i guess all law and military personnel are screwed with their glocks and 1911s, why don't you write them?
     
  10. jackstinson

    jackstinson Member

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    No problem at all.
    Tom Cruise has demonstrated the "one-hand and a desk top" technique of racking a PPK slide.
    That should work fine on a PPS.
     
  11. NG VI

    NG VI Member

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    Wow. I actually think my Glocks have nice clean lines. And I don't think I've ever experienced a dud that wasn't a rimfire either.
     
  12. possum

    possum Member

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    sorry you feel that way, and for you maybe they aren't right but for many many many folks they are.

    well now since we are playing the "what if" game, if you would have spent time training on type 1 malfunction clearance and had qaulity ammo then this wouldn't be a problem. a type one is an easy fix, as a matter of fact each time i go to the range i mix in inert rds to get added training value, and i am guranteed to have atleast 1 type 1 per mag. if you work at it enough you will be able to do it, when you hear the click, and you will probally not even be able to tell that you actually did it. tap rack is all there is to it.
     
  13. possum

    possum Member

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    again this goes back to training which seems that you have none of. you should see the scars on my holsters, and my guns where i have racked the slide one handed only both strong and weak so many times. it is something that i do every trip to the range.

    you have to train for everything, your gun is a da/sa and you can pull the trigger again, if you pick up another gun or for some reason have to use a gun that isn't da/sa you will be screwed, you have trained for a da/sa gun and at that time you don't have one, you are gonna be scratching your head trying to figure out what the heck is going on when you should have tapped, racked and been back in the fight. if i am using a da/sa gun or if i am using a glock, sa xd, 1911, it dosen't matter when i hear click instead of bang, it is an imediate tap and rack and keep on keeping on.
     
  14. NOLACOPUSMC

    NOLACOPUSMC Member

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  15. newmenu

    newmenu Member

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    absolutely no
    fact is Ive just been trying to see whats the best all round, all situation ccw. from what I gather, that all depends on the individual and their specific circumstances and training. If your trained enough to quickly rack your auto pistol onehanded, then thats great! I would say the glock is probably your best bet for a ccw. if your not so good at that technique than I would probably go with a sig, or an hk. if your not proficient with onehanded racking but are a really darn good shot under stress, two or one handed than Id say a 5 shot snubby would be your first choise.

    carry what you want, im not here to criticize what people like, im just throwing this out there is all, and all things considered, im going to look into shooting training as well as onehand racking. i never wouldve thought of it withouth this thread, so thank you.
     
  16. wtfd661

    wtfd661 Member

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    Then don't buy one, thats just MHO. :neener:

     
  17. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

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    I wholly agree, but that contradicts what you said above, and that's why you'll see this thread continue to fill up. Ultimately, what's mine is mine and what's yours is yours, and as long as your training/carry habits are safe and suit you, who cares about the details of your or anyone else's preference?
     
  18. newmenu

    newmenu Member

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    im just playing devils advocate so I may learn. I want to know as much as i possibly can, i am just considering all things here.
     
  19. heavyshooter

    heavyshooter Member

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    Hmmm, Am I the only one who saw this coming? :uhoh: newmenu, let me give you THR lesson #1. Never word you opinions as though they were facts. Hold on to your boot straps boss; it's about to get bumpy. :D

    ***Bonus Lesson - Never, ever, never criticize Glocks!!! I do not like them, but it is an excellent and battle tested gun design. Any cricism of it is merely a matter of preference. If you present your prefernce in an exclusive manner you offend the millions of Glock lovers in the world. You are asking for a beef if you do that. ;)

    Just Trying to keep the peace

    Heavy
     
  20. stevereno1

    stevereno1 Member

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    I carry a G-27, trijicons,+1 Factory mag extention with 180 grain Hornaday TAP loads in it. I guess I'm screwed!
     
  21. legion3

    legion3 Member

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    +1 Learn it, live it, love it. The shovel of autopistols...INDEED! :cuss:
     
  22. legion3

    legion3 Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  23. TexasRedneck

    TexasRedneck Member

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    That's right - Glock owners, like their guns, are somewhat goofy....

    <ya'll excuse me, ah hear mah ma callin' me.....>

    :)
     
  24. priler

    priler Member

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    hey newmenu,have you ever stuck your finger in a hornets nest?

    by the way,your not the only one to write misinformation on this one thread.
     
  25. newmenu

    newmenu Member

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    it feels more like i stuck my head in a hornets nest! I have to say, ive seen some really good points and ideas here and am glad this thread exhists
     
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