Glock G36 vs S&W CS45

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Gunmeister

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I'm having a hard time deciding on which .45ACP I should buy. I very much like the S&W CS45 at the same time, I very much like the Glock G36. Comparative facts and info from folks who own or have owned these guns would be very much appreciated. I have fired a G36 but have not managed to find a CS45 to try.
The pistol would serve as a primary CCW piece.
 
I'm happy with my carry piece but look forward to comments on this thread... I, too, have handled each but have only fired the G36. The Smith certainly feels better in my hands than the Glock, but in general, I have very few issues with the Glock and would carry one if nothing else was available.

Anyway, having nothing solid to contribute... carry on... :p
 
I have to go with cratz2

It's an interesting question and I think I'll follow this thread. I haven't shot either one but I've looked at both with a lot of interest. I think the glock is lighter but the smith seems to feel better to me.
 
I can't offer any definitive information, just personal opionions ... but I own a CS45 and I've handled and shot a G36 upon occasion.

I happen to prefer the grip profile and overall shape of the CS45, and further prefer the flat CS45 magazine baseplates, versus the slightly extended CS45 baseplates with the curved finger rest. The G36 is okay, but it feels more like a slightly resilient 2X4 that's been ripped just a little thinner in one dimension.

Of course, I also happen to prefer the TDA trigger of the CS series, but that's another issue. I can shoot either the Safe Action (constant double action) Glock, or the S&W DA/SA (TDA), with equal results. But then I train with both ... and I've spent the last 15 years training quite a bit on TDA S&W pistols.

I could certainly see how someone's preference for one of the actions over the other would influence their decision, though. Different strokes, and all that.

They both produced reasonably acceptably accuracy for me.

I think they're both small enough that potential owners should carefully consider that they're buying a large caliber pistol built on a reduced size platform ... with all that this involves. Reduced slide mass and increased slide velocities may create some potential functioning issues for some folks, depending on their grip technique, and their choice of ammunition ... especially if they use +P ammunition. And then there's the frame flexion of the G36 to possibly consider ... depending.

Personally, I wouldn't use +P ammunition in either of them, simply because I don't feel that any potential increase in velocity offers me enough "performance advantage" to offset the potential disadvantages ... increased slide velocity, increased muzzle blast, increased perceived recoil and controllability issues, increased cost ... things of that nature.

My CS45 doesn't "like" Speer 200gr +P. The slide moves so fast that it can sometimes apparently "outrun" the magazine spring for the last round, resulting in a feeding failure where the round wasn't released fast enough, or lifted under the lips fast enough, for proper feeding "timing". I've also had a couple instances where the last round was completely dislodged from the magazine lips, under recoil, and exited the pistol unfired, along with the empty, fired case. I've watched this happen with other, larger framed .45's when using some +P ammunition, too.

I've seen a failure to feed, apparently related to increased slide velocity, occur to someone else shooting 185gr +P in another CS45. I've also had this happen with a Ruger P-90, and watched it happen with more than one G30 using the same 200gr Gold Dot +P, too ... I just dislike +P ammuniiton in smaller .45's ... Other folks may feel differently, and that's fine.

The CS45 does have a little shorter barrel, though ... 3.25" versus the 3.78" of the G36 (which is more the length of the larger S&W 457 or 4513TSW, at 3.75"). The octagonal barrel profile of the G36 might offer some slightly faster velocities than the conventially cut rifling of the CS45.

On that topic, you could also probably favorably compare the G36 to the S&W 457S, since the overall length of the G36 is 6.77" (slide) and the overall length of the 457S is only 7.25" ... and the CS45 has a length of 6.5". That would give the 457S a 1-round magazine capacity advantage (7+1 total capacity), while the CS45 is similar to the G36 at 6+1 rounds total capacity. The G36 is lighter than either the CS45 or the 457S, by approx 3+-8+ ounces, though. Take your pick.

Going back to the subject of +P ammunition, however, I should mention that my 4513TSW ... which also has a 3.75" barrel, like the 457S, but a slightly longer overall length of 7.75" ... doesn't seem to mind the +P 200gr loads as much as the CS45. I can only think of one time it bobbled on one. Of course, it also weighs more and uses the same double-recoil springs as the 4013TSW.

Both the G36 & the CS45 models apparently experienced some magazine problems when they were first released, and both are supposed to have been resolved rather quickly.

In the case of the CS45, I was told that it only affected a small number of early magazines, and was related to the additional magazine body "dimples". The "dimpled" indentations are located at the bottom/rear of the magazine's "P Lips", which are the primary, larger & shallower indentations used on S&W .45 ACP magazines. The additional, smaller & deeper indentations were intended to help prevent the top round from being diplaced forward during the violent recoil of the smaller CS platform. Some of the early indentations were apparently slightly unevenly impressed in the magazine's sides, which caused the rising round to be slightly delayed in it's "timing" as it wiggled from one side to the other passing by the uneven indentations, instead of straight upward between two evenly placed indentations. This was resolved with a change in the manufacturing process.

I know a few folks that really like their CS45's. I'm one of them, by the way. I only know one fellow that owns a G36, and last I heard he was trying to sell it. He said he wasn't confident in it's reliability, since it had exhibited erratic functioning for him. Of course, he also said that he'd taken it to another agency's Glock armorer (I wasn't one at that time), who told him that the pistol was insufficiently lubricated. Apparently it functioned fine for the other armorer after being lubricated, but the owner had lost confidence in it. (This same G36 functioned fine when I handled and shot it once, briefly, using 230gr FMJ. I haven't seen it since he complained about it's functioning).

Can't blame the pistol for the owner's actions ... but try convincing most owners of that.:)

I've seen more than my fair share of absolutely bone dry, very dirty pistols that were carried daily in holsters without having been properly cleaned & lubed in who knows how long. It always "amazes" the shooter of a pistol that won't reliably function during a qualification session ... because it's completely dry, and often VERY dirty ... when I simply take the pistol and add a couple drops of oil ... and the dirty pistol functions just fine for the rest of the session. And this puzzles them??? :scrutiny: :uhoh:

Okay, enough babbling ... Sorry.

I guess that I'd have to say that I wouldn't necessarily recommend either a G36 or a CS45 to anyone "new" to shooting .45 pistols. Smaller, diminutive .45's often require a bit more training, knowledge and experience shooting .45's ... than owning other smaller calibers, or larger .45's. I couldn't tell by your posting if you're an old hand at owning & shooting .45 's, or if you're "new" to them.

I'd be more likely to recommend either a G30 or a 457S/4513TSW to a fairly new, prospective .45 pistol owner/shooter ... and even to some more experienced ones. The G30 & 457S are a bit more "user friendly" because of their slightly larger size, grip profile and weight.

Otherwise, I think the G36 & CS45 are both great little .45's.

You really need to shoot both pistols, using QUALITY factory ammunition, at a range somewhere.

Just my thoughts ...

Edited because I can't spell well anymore. Damned word processors. :banghead:
 
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Thanks very much FASTBOLT for your most outstanding opinion. Yep, I'm not new to shooting sports but I am new to the world of .45acp shooting, just got the urge to own one. I have an interest in the G30 and find it to be very user friendly and a pleasure to shoot but it's like trying to CCW a 7" long piece of 2x4.
I too know several LEO's, one a family member, who don't seem interested in keeping their potentialy life saving equipment clean and well maintained. Thank God neither of them have had to use their piece to save a life but the day will come. Other from quals, they seem to have no interest in shooting sports at all. As a retired career military man, I sometimes hold a surprise inspection on the kid's piece. Lucky for him it's a Glock G22 and they can function pretty well even if poorly maintained. He's a lot better at it now but like a lot of other LEO's, he has to work lot's of overtime and two jobs to support his family so he has little time for anything else.
Thanks again for your comprehensive analysis, I really appreciate it.
Stay safe and God Bless.
 
Gunmeister

You're welcome ... just remember that my opinion is only worth the money it cost. :D

I really enjoy my range sessions with my CS45. After trying a couple different sets of sights I finally settled on an early Ashley Big Dot, before they offered the tritium capsule in the rear sight. The Big Dot is REALLY visible for my 50+ eyes. It does make shooting smaller targets at distances farther than 15 yards a bit more challenging, though.

I've handled and shot a fair selection of the newer itty-bitty .45's ... and I can't say that I really care for many of them. When it comes to 1911's, I think the best compromise was reached when the Officers Model was released. The shorter models simply don't have the same "feel" for me when I'm shooting them. The ultra compact polymer framed 1911's don't appeal to me. I actually like the feel of the CS45 & G36 better.

As enjoyable and controllable as my CS45 is for general practice and realistic range training, I do find my 4513TSW to "better it" pretty much all the way around ... but then you're back to a medium-sized platform. Of course, the single column magazine S&W pistols have a thinner "feel" to their frip frames ... but to be fair, decocking levers often create the "feel" of them being wider, and installing Hogue grips can increase that perception. Not by much, but it feels like more than it is, if that makes any sense.

The G36 has been praised & cussed by owners.

As a Glock armorer, it requires a couple of parts that aren't standard to any of the other Glock models, but that's a small consideration and wouldn't affect the ordinary owner.

Overall size and concealment can vary quite a bit from one person to the next, and personal perception can skew a lot of things. I know.;)

The funny thing is, though, here's a comparison of the dimensions of a G30 and a G36:

G30/ G36
Overall length (slide) 6.77" / 6.77"
Height (incl. mag) 4.76" / 4.76"
Width 1.27" / 1.13"
Length Between Sights 5.95" / 6.18"
Barrel Length 3.78" / 3.78"

Perhaps they "feel" more different than they really are ... That, or the 0.14" difference in width is some sort of "critical threshold". Beats me. :)

After carrying around my earlier issued .357 Magnum service revolvers & favorite 1911's off duty when I was younger ... nowadays I find I mostly enjoy carrying smaller framed off duty weapons, such as a 3913, CS9, J-frame revolver, Ruger SP-101, or my recently purchased G26 & G27, rather than most of my larger pistols & revolvers. Not always ... but mostly. Risk assessment & comfort play a duet in my head on my own time.

I've always been a fan of the .45 ACP. Don't get me wrong. It's just that I no longer feel "under armed" when carrying any of my smaller 9mm's, a .40 S&W, or even my 5-shot .38's/.357's.

Kahr MK9--K9--K40 and others

I'm guessing by your signature line that you're not necessarily overly concerned about smaller calibers, as well. ;)

Now ... IF ... or WHEN ... Glock can produce a G26/27-sized pistol chambered in .45G.A.P. ... IF this new higher pressure cartridge will lend itself to something smaller than the pending G38, which ought to be G19/23 size ... and there's a decent selection of 230gr JHP/BHP ammunition on the market (I'm a believer in good, old-fashioned 230gr .45 bullets) ... then maybe we'll have a new twist to this subject, huh? You might even find that Kahr might offer a model chambered in .45 G.A.P., and you could remain with a design you're already comfortable with. Who knows?

It may also come down to whether you prefer the Glock's constant double action design, or want to adapt to a DA/SA (TDA) design. S&W was offering the CS series in DAO for a while, but the DAO option has been dropped from their standard catalog. The factory would probably still convert a CS45 from TDA to DAO for someone, though, through their customer service/gunsmithing services.

It's always something, isn't it?

Best ...
 
While I cannot comment on the CS45, I can comment extensively on the G36.

The G36 has been my carry gun for about a year and a half.

Depending on the social constraint, I can (and do) carry it on the belt, in the waistband, in the pocket, or on the ankle. This varietal ability gives it a great advantage over many currently available .45s.

The recoil, while somewhat sharp, is manageable.

The gun does not like wide mouthed bullets of the "flying ashtray" variety, such as the Cor-Bon offering. It does, however, like the Winchester Silvertip!! That is what I carry in it. I have found out that the lighter weight bullets work better in it than the standard 230 grain.

Being thin, it is a great joy to carry, and the polymer frame keeps the weight to a tolerable level.

Some have said that the six round capacity is a determent, but it is the same as the vaunted Colt Officer's model, and only one round less than the great 1911!!! I just don't buy the argument!!

Mine has Trijicon tritium night sights and the "minus" connector with the reduced power trigger spring. The pull is comparable that of a 1911.

I have ofttimes referred to mine as "my beloved G36". Try one out and you may just find out why!!! ;)
 
I like the 36 own one myself. Very accurate for it's sight radius.

However get what fits your mits.:D
 
I've gone through several guns, trying to find one that was really comfortable to carry.
I looked at the CS45 extensively. I didn't really feel that it fit my hands.
Fastbolt was kind enough to answer many questions about the CS45 and the 457.

I did own a 457 for a while, and it was a very soft shooter, but was too big and heavy for a CCW for me.

I currently own a G36, and have been amazed at how easy it is to carry.
With a Don Hume belt, and a Watch Six IWB holster, it disappears under a Tee shirt.
It is light enough that I do forget I'm wearing it.
I've wanted to go to a G19, because I like 9mm, and I'd really like the extra capacity, but I really think the extra 3oz. would make a difference to me.

When shooting the G36, you never forget that you are shooting a real gun, but I had a hard time getting it away from my 17 yr. old daughter.
Go figure.
I don't find the recoil painful or uncomfortable at all. I can't say the same about my .38 cal. S&W 642. :scrutiny:

Both the CS45 and the G36 are good guns.
I'm betting one of them feels better in your hand. That's the one you should get.
For me it was the G36.
 
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