Glock kaBooms

[Trent]

I retract the OAL 9mm issues post I made yesterday, where I said I faced problems when loading certain brands of hollowpoints for my G17. It occurred to me that these problems were encountered AFTER the original (bulged) barrel was replaced with a Wilson barrel. My issues should be excluded from the discussion because the feeding angles encountered were no longer factory spec.

H&K USP's carry the same warning in the manual regarding shooting exposed lead bullets, for the exact same reasons, FWIW.

Also, I have yet to see ANY firearms manual that doesn't disclaim all liability and warranty, and offer stern warnings against shooting reloaded ammunition.

I've personally loaded tens of thousands of rounds and run them through my Glock 21, but YMMV. Meanwhile, my experiences reloading 40 S&W were less than pleasant. Soft loads caused no case deformation, but case deformity became noticeable and increased significantly as rounds were loaded closer to the red line.

Other weapons bulge the base of 40 S&W casings as well, not just Glocks. I also owned a Sig Sauer for a time, which bulged casings VERY badly. Springfield XD's seem to support more of the chamber and weren't bulging the base of cases, but I dislike the trigger. One of the reasons I don't shoot 40 anymore, too high of pressures for my tastes, and given the level of recoil 40 S&W has, I'd just as soon shoot a larger diameter projectile out the business end and stick with a 45 ACP.

My .02.

 

[Trent]

PS; the 40 S&W bulged casings weren't ONLY on reloads. Most of the bulging was discovered on once fired factory ammo through the handgun, and resulted in a high case discard rate when I went to reload the once fired brass. I also learned not to trust the brass after the first reload - bulging seemed to increase with subsequent firings, so I erred on the side of caution and started pitching all 2x fired casings. With the volume I shoot, and no compelling practical advantages inherent to the 40 S&W cartridge vs. 45ACP for my application (target shooting and the occasional competition shoot), I went back to a more economical setup with 9mm and 45ACP for minor and major auto. I get a LOT of reuse out of a 45 ACP case, and have yet to pitch any 9mm except what has been fired and deformed badly in an MP5.

 

[Messenger Guard]

My findings are the same sir. The 40 just runs at too high of a pressure to leave any room for error. While the 45 and 40 have similar ballistic results, they go about it in entirely different ways. The 45 is truly a re loader friendly cartridge. The 40 and it's high blood pressure parent the 10mm are not.

 

[billybob44]

How many guns do you think Glock sell each day? How much money do you think Glock is worth? Now how many underemployed, ambulance chasing lawyers do you think we have in the United States, alone?

If there were any problem with any caliber Glock, they wouldn't be selling them to civilians, police, and military users by the truckload. The .40 SW Glocks are a big portion of sales.

The Glock 22 was one of the first popular .40 SW pistols. When a new cartridge comes about, there will be plenty of hand loaders trying to see just what it can do. There may also be some ammunition makers who miss some details (Federal changed their .40 brass to make it stronger). So some guns blew up. If you shoot factory ammo and know how to maintain a gun, you shouldn't have any worries.

And you are limited to what ever the Mfgs. want to make for you to shoot!!

 

[sansone]

glocks are reliable pistols, I would not hesitate to buy one if I could get past the ugly

 

[JohnBiltz]

Guns are not explosive, ammo can be explosive. I know of no gun that when unloaded has kaboomed. Its always the ammo that causes the kaboom. I've blown up a .357 magnum S&W shooting factory .38 special ammo and it blew the whole right side of the cylinder out. The gun did its job, I was not hurt. Has anyone ever been hurt in a Glock kaboom?

 

[BWB]

There seems to be as much heat as light surrounding this issue,even though this thread is thankfully civilised.
I was frankly sceptical of the kaboom stuff, leaning toward the "with the millions of guns out there, and the thousands of idiots, there are bound to be problems" point of view.
Recently on my private range there was a Glock .40 malfunction which resulted in a damaged gun and fortunately no injury. I was not present at the time, but the shooter was an SF officer and a totally reliable witness. The immediate result was a complete head separation and the extractor with its associated parts (extractor depressor plunger, etc.) blown out of the gun. The breech face was intact. Given the complete head separation, the only conclusion I can reach is that the gun somehow fired out of battery. Noone here can come up with a convincing scenario of how that could have happened, and we're still working on it.
The ammunition was carefully assembled handloads using a published and pressure tested recipe. Please spare me the "factory ammunition only" puerile lecture. I have had more factory ammunition incidents over the years than I've ever had with properly prepared handloads, because that number is zero.
We're still trying to figure this one out, but I'm paying a little more attention to the Glock stories now.

 

[migkillertwo]

I've never heard of a Glock KBing that wasn't in .40 S&W.

There's a lot of leeway with how hot you can load a 9mm or a .45 ACP, so even if there's too much powder your chamber won't KB. But this is not the case with a .40 S&W. All .40 S&W rounds are loaded to very high pressures, and slightly more powder may cause a KB. A lot of people who reload .40 S&W accidentally put too much powder in their reloads. A lot of said reloaders also use Glocks. Hence, kaboom. This will happen in any gun chambered in .40 S&W

Why are these reports so common? I can only guess it's just because Glock has sold more handguns than anyone to Police and civilians.

that said, don't worry if you're getting a Glock 19

 

[millertyme]

I don't really care for Glocks but I'm considering getting one just because they are so dagone reliable and so highly recommended for shooters of all experiences. The Kaboom problem is nearly the same as the Remington 700 problem. You have millions of guns on the market. Any gun can have a catastrophic failure, especially when someone does something they shouldn't with it. It's my understanding that many of the instances where the G22's have KB'd it had something to do with reloads that had previously fired from a Glock or another pistol without a fully supported case. Things happen. Rem700 triggers aren't afoul right out of the box. Someone messed with them and people died because the operator didn't practice safe gun handling principles. Don't follow instructions? Don't be surprised when bad things happen. Now, If only I could decide between a G17 or a G19...

 

[TheProf]

Did not Glock come out with a more supported barrel for their .40 models?

If so, does anyone know the starting serial number (or date of manufacture) for the more supported barrel models? (specifically for the G27)

 

[REAPER4206969]

It was done awhile ago (~1998~.) I would guess all 27's have it.

 

[Benzene]

No more "unsupported" barrel?

So, is it a FACT that Glock has remedied this "unsupported barrel" feature? I've read a number of objective analyses of the Glock kaboom fiasco, analyses that factually debunk the claim that reloaded ammo is the only cause of such KBs, and that there's the structural "flaw" of too much "unsupported barrel".

If I could determine it to be a FACT that Glock HAS corrected this structural issue, I'd buy a number of Glocks.

Thanks for every piece of useful information.

 

[M1key]

Early .40 S&W factory ammunition had thinner webbing in the case head which, combined with the generous Glock chamber, lead to the initial problems.


M

 

[GunTech]

The unsupported chamber is a point of concern, and if it really bothers you, you can get an aftermarket barrel if you want a Gloch and better chamber support.

But as noted, the number of Glock kB as a percentage of production is very, very small.

I've seen examples of just about every modern handgun that's kBd. Ammo, build flaws and other causes have all been cited. But it can happen - to any gun.

 

[VA27]

I've seen one Glock kB. Shooter got a 40 cal round into his 45 magazine. Click...tap-rack-kaBoom! The 40 round wasn't captured by the extractor so the gun didn't fire. The 45 did fire and the 40 round acted as an obstruction. Bulged the barrel and the slide, no fractured metal. A new top end and the gun was good as new.

 

[Zoogster]

Something to take away from the pictures like those posted by guntech is the type of kaboom.

Any gun can kaboom by being fed severely excessive handloads.

But the type of damage to the gun tells its own story.

In the automag, that is seriously excessive pressure symptoms, blowing off the top or out the side of the chamber.
In the revolver the cylinder and the top strap is ripped apart, once again clearly very severe pressures to accomplish that.
(Outside of some manufacturer defect.)
The same can be said for the XD, pressure was excessive and the top was blown off.
(It should be noted a gun with a weaker chamber or barrel could fail in such a way at lower pressures.)
All of these things say it was likely severe pressure to cause that destruction, in a modern properly manufactured firearm free of defects.

Yet if you look at the HK and Sig picture you see that the top did not give out. Rather the pressure vented into the firearm.
You often see the same thing with Glock kabooms.
This is more likely on a gun with less chamber support or a severe feed ramp angle. Or in a gun that fires out of battery.
The path of least resistance being the less supported portion of the brass at the feed ramp.
This would be possible at much lower excesses of pressure than the type of kabooms with the entire chamber or topstrap blown off.
This means it is probably easier to kaboom such a firearm because just excessive pressure and not severely excessive pressure is necessary.
Of course it also means when there is a kaboom it will probably not turn to shrapnel because the gun vents at lower pressure into the trigger and magazine well area.
In a polymer gun however it will often ruin the frame. It is also troubling because the fingers tend to be right below the downward directed blast from the chamber.
So is it safer or more dangerous? Hard to say, but certainly it is easier to have or cause brass case heads or sides to fail than thick steel chambers. So a gun that relies more on unsupported brass strength to remain safe would be easier to exceed safe pressure in.



So not all kabooms are equal. Some designs allow them to happen at closer to operational pressures than others.

That said I like a few Glock models. You just need to know and work within the limitations of any firearm design. Excessive case support reduces reliability, which could cause the gun to fail to cycle in a life or death situation. So there is a trade-off.
This trade-off in Glocks is minor in 9mm and 10mm models, the calibers the different frames were originally designed around.
While when 9mm frames are adapted to fire wider than intended high pressure cases by increasing the angle of the feed ramp to allow feeding in a firearm designed for the 9mm the trade-off becomes more extreme and less acceptable to me (like in the .40s)
This is not unique to Glock 9mm frames firing .40s, but includes many other manufacturers that simply increased the feed ramp angle to adapt 9mm frames to .40S&W and still give reliable feeding with the wider round in the same amount of space that was designed for the 9mm cartridge.
(The ability of 9mm frames to fire .40S&W of course being the whole selling point of the idea of .40S&W over the downloaded 10mmAuto then popular.)

 

[vsteel]

My research on Glocks going boom was a while ago and just for the 9mm and lead reloads. I am sorry I can't post links because this was many years ago and in mags like guns and ammo, gun tests and the like. For the record I have put thousands of lead reloads down my Glock 17 with no issues. Here is what all of the articles boiled down to.

1. Lead reloads using way to soft of lead.
2. Using lead bullets with a diameter of .357 vs .355
3. Lots of rapid firing where the barrel would get extremely hot.
4. Using loads that gave a copper velocity.

The guns that did blow and were examined had huge amounts of lead in the barrel, to the point it could be peeled off in HUGE chunks, pretty much like shooting another round after a squib load with a bullet stuck in the barrel.

When I shoot lead reloads for my Glock I use lead bullets sized to .355, make sure they are hard and don't see if I can make the barrel glow. It used to be said if people were worried they could run a copper bullet down the barrel every 10th round or so to help clean out the lead but I never did that.

I have never had an issue of lead smearing or building up. I don't own a 40 or 10mm so I can't comment on that subject.

 

[Snakum]

All .40S&W Glocks are inherently dangerous and should only be used by adults under supervision by accredited firearms instructors and with Fire/EMS standing by.

 

[campgrafton]

My new 40 cal Generation 4 Glock went KaBoom. Glock was no help, said it was the ammo. I only shoot new factory loaded ammo.

 

[GLOOB]

You should talk to the ammo manufacturer. I'm sure they'd be really interested in your account, along with the lot number. If you have any left, hold onto them. The manufacturer will probably want them back.

 

[coyotehunter223]

Campgrafton, let's see some pictures of the kaboom. Not calling BS on you completely, but your only 3 posts on this forum, all in one day claiming a kaboom could be easily verified by some pics.

I suppose it is possible to get a doublecharge from the factory, but one point not mentioned yet is the constant chambering/clearing of a round from the chamber can seat the bullet deeper into the case, which can raise pressures significantly.

I have a Gen 4 G35, and even with hot, high pressure loads I do not get any bulge like the older ones do. A friend has a Gen 1 G22, and when we shoot together it is easy to tell what brass came from what gun. My SIG 229 bulges the .40 brass much more than the G35.

 

[Zerodefect]

So, is it a FACT that Glock has remedied this "unsupported barrel" feature? I've read a number of objective analyses of the Glock kaboom fiasco, analyses that factually debunk the claim that reloaded ammo is the only cause of such KBs, and that there's the structural "flaw" of too much "unsupported barrel".

If I could determine it to be a FACT that Glock HAS corrected this structural issue, I'd buy a number of Glocks.

Thanks for every piece of useful information.

My Glock 23 (.40)has more "support" than my better 1911's. (.45)

My G23 was bought around 09. As long as you get a newer Glock with the latest style mags, clean it like a regular gun, and shoot decent factory ammo you'll be fine. (Avoid UMC, Wolf, Blazer) (Stick with Federal, American Eagle, WWB ammo)

Alot of the Glock Kabooms were related to Overpressured reloads, lead fouling in the barrel, and out of battery ignition. Just keep fresh springs in the Glock and keep it clean.

Too amny people abuse the Glock platform because Glocks can handle it. But I like having all my fingers, so I maintain my Glocks as well as my $2000+ 1911.

 

[miles1]

Where i live the police dept. use 40 cal glocks.I know several officers from different citys in the area d/t working in a hospital and havent heard of any problems or KB's.

 

[LawofThirds]

The rash of .40 S&W Glock kB's is a poorly designed round put into a gun that didn't take into account the poor design of the round. By all acounts, the later .40's have much better support. Personally, I wouldn't own a Glock in anything but 9mm.

It's watching someone with an umbrella jump off a 2 story house. You know what's going to eventually happen.

 

[Utahusker]

All .40S&W Glocks are inherently dangerous and should only be used by adults under supervision by accredited firearms instructors and with Fire/EMS standing by.

I've been maimed many times, and I won't learn.