Glock triggers - help me please.

[.38 Special]

I don't keep up with IPSC.

I wouldn't run a Glock in USPSA open (steam engine kaboom) division. People have, but open is so custom, you minus well start off with custom steel.

You lost me at "good triggers are silly boomer stuff".

 

[InTheSwamp]

Well, okay. Most factory triggers are not very good.

Cannot speak for all, but Glock, striker-fired HK triggers are very good for what they are designed for.

 

[Mark_Mark]

What Gen is your 17?

4, i think, finger grovers. I’m going to look for one of those grip sleeve thing

 

[.38 Special]

See, thats where we seem to differ in opinion. I don't find factory triggers to be bad at all, and baring the occasional lemon, that goes for any of them.

The things I wonder about, in response to that, are whether you have any real experience with a good trigger (that's not meant to be an insult) and whether we have the same expectations from our handguns.

As to the former, the gold standard is older S&W revolvers, used in single action. They normally take about three or four pounds, and there is no discernable motion in them until the hammer drops. Similar triggers are available on things like semi-autos meant for Bullseye competition, Olympic rapid fire, etc., and they make hits enough easier that it is generally accepted that such events cannot be won without them. Taken to the extreme, the triggers on 10m air and 50m free pistols have the same kind of break, but at far lower weight. Again, there is simply no way to be competitive in games like that using a trigger like the Glock's. Just about everyone, in my experience, who tries such a trigger has his standards forever changed. He doesn't necessarily go out and sell all his Glocks, but he does now understand the handicap.

Which ties in with the latter: if a fellow expects to group into three or four inches at seven or ten yards - or expects to hit big carboard cutouts at a few feet, going as fast as he can - then triggers become far less important. BUT: "Adequate for my purpose" is not nearly the same as "good". When the OP - or the countless other folks like him - complain about Glock triggers, I assume they are complaining about them in comparison with that gold standard. Otherwise, they probably wouldn't be complaining!

 

[tarosean]

Has a Glock ever been on the podium in IPSC's open division? (Serious question - I don't actually know, though I have a pretty good idea...)

No they had serious reliability issues with open guns even with all that Glock $$$$ behind the Team

 

[Mark_Mark]

See, thats where we seem to differ in opinion. I don't find factory triggers to be bad at all, and baring the occasional lemon, that goes for any of them.

I know we live in the wonderful age of marketing, and gunsmiths and gun writers, and everyone and their brother who seem to have just what you need, to let you enter the Matrix with a phone call or a buy now button, and buy your skills. No effort on your part is necessary.

Hey, if I, nobody special, can shoot box stock Glocks well, anybody can, if they are willing to make the effort. And the same effort, applies to any brand of gun you want to slip into that last sentence.

What I see over and over in threads like this is, people want someone, or something else to do all the work for them and/or make up for their shortcomings. That is human nature, and I get it, but it is what it is too. Insisting you can only shoot one type of gun, with this specific trigger, and those special grips screws, and that special Montana air in your ammo, etc, etc, just makes you a one gun limited specialist, and Im betting one that also way overestimates their skills even with that.

If you cant pick up a random gun off the counter and shoot it reasonably well from a cold start, that isn't the guns fault.


My realoads basically match any of the carry ammo I might use. 124 grain bullet at around 1150-1200 fps. 5.5 grains Unique (if and when you can find it these days, or BE-86 is what Ive been using for a while now. Ive used 4.5 grains of 231 in the past as well.

Stock 17 with a LWD threaded barrel and one of the above loads. Doesnt matter which, they all shoot the same. Those were shot "static" from SUL presentations at 10 yards.

An old box stock Gen 2 17 shot the day I got it. I hadn't take the laser off yet, nor did I use it as the batteries were dead. Shot a bit more "energetically" too, probably from 15 yards or so and in.

Even the "fat babys" shoot well, especially when you let them run.

Everything seems to like those loads too.

Thats the attitude.

I got some 124 RMR Nuke HP coming in! I think 124 is what most my guns like.

 

[.38 Special]

Cannot speak for all, but Glock, striker-fired HK triggers are very good for what they are designed for.

I'd agree with that, actually. But they are designed to be cheap, reliable, easily replaceable actuation devices which allow for combat accuracy at combat distances.

But if a person hopes for "Good" rather than "Good, with the following modifiers:" then he's liable to be disappointed.

 

[sevt_chevelle]

That just puts us back to the "we only know what we know" thing, which tends to leave us behind. If you're comfortable with that, then I guess you're golden. Some of us like to be a bit more versatile and keep moving ahead and learning.

So right before Covid hit, my GF bought a Sig P365, I bought her a case of speer 9mm so she could train with it.
From the start that pistol just wasn't working for her, 1k worth of ammo and even after 2 private lessons with a Madison, Wis Swat officer whom moonlights as a trainer.

Then she tried a Shield plus and the gun just worked. She went from being frustrated to confident within a few magazines.

So in your world, how many more rounds and how many more lessons did she need with that p365?

 

[vanfunk]

Thank you all, and I really appreciate your input and insight. Not surprisingly, there are broad viewpoints and opinions on this topic. To the poster who said that they don’t get it, and that I don’t like Glocks, the former is not the case. I DO like Glocks, and that is part and parcel of the problem. I don’t know where the comment came about the grip angle; I don’t have a problem there and never mentioned it. I like everything about Glocks except the trigger; that’s the point of the thread. My PRIMARY home defense handgun is a Glock, a gen 5 G21. To those who have suggested the Glock trigger is like a 1911, I can’t even begin to understand that. I don’t get the comparison to a DA revolver trigger either. For me, the Glock has a 6 stage trigger… takeup, increasing resistance takeup, wall, wallllllllllllllll-pulllllllllllllll, bang, overtravel. Technically, it’s the worst trigger I’ve ever experienced among hundreds of firearms. This is not a criticism. It’s an illustration of why I can’t shoot them well and am so distracted. The trigger does affect my ability to stay on target, and thus I don’t shoot them half as well as other guns. I want to shoot them well. Hence the thread about what can be done, of anything, about the trigger.

What I have learned from this thread is that nothing will transform the Glock trigger into what I want. It’s just the design. I do not want to keep deluding myself with glorified, avaricious advertizing about this or that trigger that will offer a “3.5lb crisp pull,” that’s nowhere near possible. Nowhere near. That doesn’t make the Glock “bad” in my mind. I would like to try and refine the trigger so that’s it’s better. So far, nothing I’ve done has made it more than 10% better. That there’s my problem

 

[InTheSwamp]

I'd agree with that, actually. But they are designed to be cheap, reliable, easily replaceable actuation devices which allow for combat accuracy at combat distances.

But if a person hopes for "Good" rather than "Good, with the following modifiers:" then he's liable to be disappointed.

I haven't tried to modify mine because reliability in combat situations at combat distances is what I need from them.
I only own one toy (CZ TSO) and it took me a few mags to get "used" to it. It's a different animal for a different purpose and I wouldn't want it in my hands (over a Glock) for self-defense.

Back to the OP's topic, there's nothing wrong with G's triggers. And there's little to nothing he can do to make it "better" for the intended purpose.

 

[InTheSwamp]

So far, nothing I’ve done has made it more than 10% better. That there’s my problem

Your problem is solved by:

A - More practice (you have already done that)
B - Choose a different pistol

That would be my easy way out. Why waste time and money...

 

[sevt_chevelle]

And, there is nothing wrong with "be all you can be, with what you got", so if that's the case, then ammo and regular realistic practice will at least keep you somewhat handy. Just don't be surprised though, if you still get left behind.

Just exactly how is one getting left behind because they dont own glocks?
Am I also getting left behind cause I don't own a Walther ppk or Laugo Alien?

 

[Mark_Mark]

Thank you all, and I really appreciate your input and insight. Not surprisingly, there are broad viewpoints and opinions on this topic. To the poster who said that they don’t get it, and that I don’t like Glocks, the former is not the case. I DO like Glocks, and that is part and parcel of the problem. I don’t know where the comment came about the grip angle; I don’t have a problem there and never mentioned it. I like everything about Glocks except the trigger; that’s the point of the thread. My PRIMARY home defense handgun is a Glock, a gen 5 G21. To those who have suggested the Glock trigger is like a 1911, I can’t even begin to understand that. I don’t get the comparison to a DA revolver trigger either. For me, the Glock has a 6 stage trigger… takeup, increasing resistance takeup, wall, wallllllllllllllll-pulllllllllllllll, bang, overtravel. Technically, it’s the worst trigger I’ve ever experienced among hundreds of firearms. This is not a criticism. It’s an illustration of why I can’t shoot them well and am so distracted. The trigger does affect my ability to stay on target, and thus I don’t shoot them half as well as other guns. I want to shoot them well. Hence the thread about what can be done, of anything, about the trigger.

What I have learned from this thread is that nothing will transform the Glock trigger into what I want. It’s just the design. I do not want to keep deluding myself with glorified, avaricious advertizing about this or that trigger that will offer a “3.5lb crisp pull,” that’s nowhere near possible. Nowhere near. That doesn’t make the Glock “bad” in my mind. I would like to try and refine the trigger so that’s it’s better. So far, nothing I’ve done has made it more than 10% better. That there’s my problem

I think about it as a Double Action Trigger..

You know what would possibly make a Glock Better.. A redot! You can see the trigger movement clearly with a redot

that’s going to me my next try. Glock 19 MOS with a RMR HD

 

[.38 Special]

Car enthusiast: "Hey everyone, I just bought a Corvette and really like it. The only problem is that the steering is kind of heavy and vague compared to my other sports cars. Is there anything I can do about it?"

Internet: "You just need to learn how to drive. There's nothing heavy or vague about Corvette steering. It's just like all other cars. Anyway, who needs precise steering? I get to work just fine with my Yugo. Why do you hate Corvettes? If they suck so much, just sell it. And if you drive it enough you'll get used to it. You're actually handicapping yourself by only driving cars with good steering."

 

[trackskippy]

The things I wonder about, in response to that, are whether you have any real experience with a good trigger (that's not meant to be an insult) and whether we have the same expectations from our handguns.

As to the former, the gold standard is older S&W revolvers, used in single action. They normally take about three or four pounds, and there is no discernable motion in them until the hammer drops. Similar triggers are available on things like semi-autos meant for Bullseye competition, Olympic rapid fire, etc., and they make hits enough easier that it is generally accepted that such events cannot be won without them. Taken to the extreme, the triggers on 10m air and 50m free pistols have the same kind of break, but at far lower weight. Again, there is simply no way to be competitive in games like that using a trigger like the Glock's. Just about everyone, in my experience, who tries such a trigger has his standards forever changed. He doesn't necessarily go out and sell all his Glocks, but he does now understand the handicap.

Which ties in with the latter: if a fellow expects to group into three or four inches at seven or ten yards - or expects to hit big carboard cutouts at a few feet, going as fast as he can - then triggers become far less important. BUT: "Adequate for my purpose" is not nearly the same as "good". When the OP - or the countless other folks like him - complain about Glock triggers, I assume they are complaining about them in comparison with that gold standard. Otherwise, they probably wouldn't be complaining!

How many of the other out of the box autos fit your S&W gold standard? I cant think of any.

I have and shoot a bunch of older S&W revolvers. They have great triggers all around, and if you like a very light, SA trigger, you're all set. I also haven't thumb-cocked one in years, if not decades. Im not a bullseye shooter, and that goes for most things anymore. Ive gotten away from the more bullseye type target shooting and gravitated towards more practical things. Nothing at all wrong with the precision end of things, but I think a lot of that isn't all that realistic. At least not for my needs, nerves, and/or entertainment.

I shoot all DA revolvers better DAO too, and switching to shooting that way, made a major improvement in all my shooting, handguns and rifles. Learning to shoot DAO helps take a lot of that trigger worry out of the equation and puts your focus more where it should be.

These were shot on my feet, some at speed, some double and triples, some even moving, varying from around 10-15 yards or so and in. All shot DAO and from a ready position or from my waistband. I havent carried a revolver in decades and don't usually bother fishing out a belt holster for them much anymore.

Its all about what you want out of things too. As I said, I personally think you should be able to pick up pretty much anything and shoot it "reasonably" well, and I'm more interested in the more real aspects of things than I am about the precision/ technical aspect of things. The latter can tend to drive you crazy too, if you arent careful.

Im sure if I were to slow down and force myself to focus, I could shoot those tight little groups shot slow fire, off a rest that you so often see posted. But I just don't have the temperament or eyesight for that anymore.

And I still do OK DAO, if I take my time and focus a little harder. I just gotta slow down. Too much "raffica" over the years has corrupted the blood.

Look, its your gun, do whatever you want with it that makes you happy. Just be honest with yourself about what any perceived trouble really is. Generally, the problem isn't with the gun.

 

[vanfunk]

Thanks Guys. I already have many pistols, I just wanted the Glocks to be easier to shoot accurately. It’s not a DA trigger. It’s not a SA trigger. It’s not even a garden-variety striker-fired trigger. It’s a Glock trigger. Existentially, scant little can be done to make it something else, and that’s ok. For me, they’re hard to shoot because my other guns are, well, not Glocks, lol. I like them, I’ll shoot them, I’ll depend on them. They do 100% of what a Glock is supposed to do. I have red dots on three of my four Glocks, doesn’t matter for shooting. They can’t be turned into something they’re not, and neither can I. That’s what Glocks and I have in common.

 

[InTheSwamp]

Car enthusiast: "Hey everyone, I just bought a Corvette and really like it. The only problem is that the steering is kind of heavy and vague compared to my other sports cars. Is there anything I can do about it?"

Internet: "You just need to learn how to drive. There's nothing heavy or vague about Corvette steering. It's just like all other cars. Anyway, who needs precise steering? I get to work just fine with my Yugo. Why do you hate Corvettes? If they suck so much, just sell it. And if you drive it enough you'll get used to it. You're actually handicapping yourself by only driving cars with good steering."

A Corvette was designed as a sports car, like the Porsche 911 Turbo, but it falls behind it.
Your silly example is akin to the comparison between a CZ TSO and an Atlas Athena. The latter has a far better trigger for competition.

Yes, you can modify your Vette's steering to match the German import, but it wouldn't do you any favor if you decided to take it off-roading in the swamp. And off-roading in the swamp
is what the OP implies he wants to do "I like their businesslike nature, their reliability"

 

[Buzznrose]

What I have learned from this thread is that nothing will transform the Glock trigger into what I want. It’s just the design. I do not want to keep deluding myself with glorified, avaricious advertizing about this or that trigger that will offer a “3.5lb crisp pull,” that’s nowhere near possible. Nowhere near.

Sorry, I kinda need to call BS on this.

True, a striker fire trigger is NOT a 1911 trigger, and won’t be, but the rest of your post makes one think a good trigger is impossible…it is not. There are certainly degrees of better.

The Timney has a very light pull. My issue with the Timney is that the trigger “wall” is almost non-existent. That is NOT a good thing in a carry gun…but it’s acceptable for a gamer gun.

The plethora other Glock triggers run the continuum of “no better than a well worn stock” to “very good, worth the cost” improvement. To each their own.

I’ve done the $0.25 on a lot of Glock triggers. It has a minimal positive effect for a while. Changing the connectors can make a difference, as can springs, but they can also affect reliability, especially with rounds that have hard primers.

I’ve settled on three triggers in my Glocks, that I’ve mentioned earlier…stock w/ $0.25 polish job (no cost option), Glock Performance Trigger (reasonable cost, solid quality), and a Johnny Glock carry (expensive but best drop-in IMO). I’ve tried Zev, Agency, Glocktriggers, and one other…I didn’t see much difference honestly…but hey, maybe you guys will.

One last thing I’ll add…other than my G44, I won’t have a Glock with a trigger I cannot carry safely. Just the way I think. I have no opinions of competition triggers other than the Timney.

Just my Glock trigger journey…yours may vary.

 

[Zerodefect]

You lost me at "good triggers are silly boomer stuff".

That's not what I said.

But since you only understand one type of trigger, there's no point in taking it further.

Runnin' fine there:

Austin USPSA; July 2, 2022 Glock 22 Limited Major.

youtu.be

Trigger looks awesome here:

Collin County USPSA July 2023 Limited Optics win Glock 34 Gen 5

I just use my Carry Optics setup lol

youtu.be

 

[trackskippy]

Just exactly how is one getting left behind because they dont own glocks?
Am I also getting left behind cause I don't own a Walther ppk or Laugo Alien?

Youre missing the point. Wasnt talking about Glocks specifically there, was talking about being as broad in your knowledge base as possible. Glocks and Aliens are as similar as a PPK and a Beretta.

 

[trackskippy]

Sorry, I kinda need to call BS on this.

True, a striker fire trigger is NOT a 1911 trigger, and won’t be, but the rest of your post makes one think a good trigger is impossible…it is not. There are certainly degrees of better.

The Timney has a very light pull. My issue with the Timney is that the trigger “wall” is almost non-existent. That is NOT a good thing in a carry gun…but it’s acceptable for a gamer gun.

The plethora other Glock triggers run the continuum of “no better than a well worn stock” to “very good, worth the cost” improvement. To each their own.

I’ve done the $0.25 on a lot of Glock triggers. It has a minimal positive effect for a while. Changing the connectors can make a difference, as can springs, but they can also affect reliability, especially with rounds that have hard primers.

I’ve settled on three triggers in my Glocks, that I’ve mentioned earlier…stock w/ $0.25 polish job (no cost option), Glock Performance Trigger (reasonable cost, solid quality), and a Johnny Glock carry (expensive but best drop-in IMO). I’ve tried Zev, Agency, Glocktriggers, and one other…I didn’t see much difference honestly…but hey, maybe you guys will.

One last thing I’ll add…other than my G44, I won’t have a Glock with a trigger I cannot carry safely. Just the way I think. I have no opinions of competition triggers other than the Timney.

Just my Glock trigger journey…yours may vary.

Thats something else that seems to be lost on some people, especially in regards to guns meant to be used for self defense. Modified triggers that could possibly cause the gun to fire unintentionally, especially under stress, in anyone's hands, but even more so in the hands of someone who doesn't train regular and realistically with it could become a big problem, and in a number of ways.

Those wonderfully light and easy target shooting triggers can be a real menace if you arent careful.

 

[vanfunk]

Buzznrose,I don’t see how you’re calling BS. You go on to agree with me with the exception of the Johnny Glock trigger, which I haven’t tried. I want a defined wall (crisp and light, which no one makes) so the Timney doesn’t sound like a good choice. Nothing, and by your own example, is a transformative change in the trigger.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Car enthusiast: "Hey everyone, I just bought a Corvette and really like it. The only problem is that the steering is kind of heavy and vague compared to my other sports cars. Is there anything I can do about it?"

Internet: "You just need to learn how to drive. There's nothing heavy or vague about Corvette steering. It's just like all other cars. Anyway, who needs precise steering? I get to work just fine with my Yugo. Why do you hate Corvettes? If they suck so much, just sell it. And if you drive it enough you'll get used to it. You're actually handicapping yourself by only driving cars with good steering."

I mean… There we go! GLOCK in a nutshell

 

[Mark_Mark]

A Corvette was designed as a sports car, like the Porsche 911 Turbo, but it falls behind it.
Your silly example is akin to the comparison between a CZ TSO and an Atlas Athena. The latter has a far better trigger for competition.

Yes, you can modify your Vette's steering to match the German import, but it wouldn't do you any favor if you decided to take it off-roading in the swamp. And off-roading in the swamp
is what the OP implies he wants to do "I like their businesslike nature, their reliability"

Glock is like a Prius! Good on Gas and Cheap!

Yes I drive a Prius

 

[Buzznrose]

Buzznrose,I don’t see how you’re calling BS. You go on to agree with me with the exception of the Johnny Glock trigger, which I haven’t tried. I want a defined wall (crisp and light, which no one makes) so the Timney doesn’t sound like a good choice. Nothing, and by your own example, is a transformative change in the trigger.

I call BS to your exaggeration that clearly infers how ‘nothing can be done’ to make it acceptable. Specifically this statement:

I do not want to keep deluding myself with glorified, avaricious advertizing about this or that trigger that will offer a “3.5lb crisp pull,” that’s nowhere near possible. Nowhere near.

You can get to a 3.5 LB trigger pull. But a 3.5 lb trigger pull in a strikerfire carry or HD gun isn’t a safe option.

You want a ‘crisp’ wall. You can have it…just not to the degree a 1911 will deliver.

I can shoot 1 hole 5 round groups at 10 yards pretty easily with a G19-5 with a Glock performance trigger. I suggest that should be your first choice for your G17. Definitely a good value and a good trigger you can carry. It’s about a 4.5lb trigger but the break is decently crisp.

Anyway…I’m out. Sorry if I overstayed my welcome…