Glocks and revolvers

[cratz2]

Glocks are as safe as most any other pistol or revolver. Most of the negligent (not accidental ) discharges happen when fingers are on the trigger and they should not be. Holstering a gun with a finger in the trigger guard just might lead to trouble... down your leg.

The most important safety on any gun isn't activated by the thumb or palm web or trigger finger... it's between your ears.

And 4thhorseman, I assure you there has been at least one accidental discharge with a DA revolver. When stress is high and you're scared poopless (can I say that? ) and you're finger is on the trigger, I don't care if it's 2 lbs or 10 lbs, a trigger pull ain't that far. I promise!

 

[Handy]

Insisting that one weapon is as safe as any other is silly if you first have to ensure that the shooter NEVER screw up.

As human error is the root cause of 90% of every kind of accident ever, this is a naive attitude. At some point in your shooting life, you WILL mishandle a gun. Maybe you will be fortunate enough to mishandle a gun that has a margin of error built in, rather than one with an unblocked 5.5 pound trigger.

I've stumbled on steps, dropped glasses and veered onto the shoulder while driving. I'm not perfect enough to never put my finger in the wrong place. Perhaps the Glock "Perfection" refers to what is required of the shooter.

 

[10-Ring]

As long as you use proper handgun safety techniques & use a quality holster when you carry your firearm, both are safe.

 

[cratz2]

I've stumbled on steps, dropped glasses and veered onto the shoulder while driving.

But as long as you do these things without your finger on the trigger, the Glock shouldn't do anything it's not designed to do.

Your point is taken but walking up steps and holding a glass are not as critical as holding a firearm in your hand for a defensive or offensive purpose and one should certianly be more cautious when holding a firearm than when walking up steps.

I would agree that there may be a lack of required training and reiteration of that training among some law enforcement agencies, but I refuse to admit that the gun itself is any less safe or more safe than any other contemporary design. Guns are desinged to go bang when pressure is put on the trigger. That is what the Glock does. Simple as that. If there are folks that don't understand that simple fact, then they certainly should not be allowed to carry a gun. And they certainly should be allowed to carry a gun and a badge.

 

[4thHorseman]

"Most of the negligent (not accidental ) discharges happen when fingers are on the trigger and they should not be. "- cratz2

I agree with you 100%. And I agree with the the differential you make between, accidential and negligent. I consider accidential discharge as NO intentent to pull the trigger. I consider negligent discharge as pulling the trigger (with your finger) and the weapon going off sooner than one expected or not expected.
I state again, Revolvers do not accidentially go off in the double action mode.
For example, I remember our local news station once stated a teen shot his friend when the 38 revovler he was handling "accidentially went off." Again I say, bull hockey. He pulled the trigger with the intention of firing the weapon.
With any weapon with a light rigger pull, accidential discharge is more common. That is why there are not many guns out there with a 1/2 pound trigger pull.
You call it what ever you want, the ideas of Glocks being unsafe is real. Notice I said "idea". There are New York triggers out for them, and now they even have little plastic plugs that fit behind the trigger so it won't go off.
What is out there for a revolver? Nothing that I know of. You might reason after 100 years, the idea a revolver is "safer" than a Glock has a following.
I do think one type of gun can be "safer" than another type of gun. Any one that doesn't is a real threat to himself and his bystanders.
The idea that "the safety between you ears" is the ONLY safety needed is a fatal error. Some things don't always work that way, that is why they use the term "accidents".
If the gun works well for you, hey that is great. I encourge all of you to be safe with any weapon. That includes a knife.
I tell my son, "once the bullet leaves the barrel, all the praying in the world, all the sorrow one has, can never return the bullet back to the barrel. The deed is done."

 

[Handy]

Cratz,

The only issue I have with the "training" arguement is that 90% of all pistol training is developing trigger finger muscle memory. Your body learns that the most natural place for that finger is the trigger, no matter if your brain is telling it otherwise.

Just as it is incredibly important to keep a car in its lane, it is important to keep mindful of what the trigger finger is doing. But in both cases, sometimes things get away from you.

A Glock trigger (to continue the analogy) is like a car with bad alignment. If you let down your guard, things will get bad real quick.


Just as has been the point of every magazine article about cond. 1 carry, Glock carry really should be for those at the top of their game. Just because the rule is simply stated, that doesn't mean it's a simple rule to practice.

Personally, I would prefer vigilance, AND a safety system that looks out for breakdowns in that vigilance. Why not give yourself every advantage?

 

[4thHorseman]

Handy, very well put.

 

[243_shooter]

Hi all..

I've been reading all the glock threads with great interest.. New to the world of pistols, longtime rifle shooter (and this may effect my thinking).. Before I started my serious research on the subject of carry piece's I wanted a glock. Now that I recently received my carry permit I've been trying to decide which road I want to go down.

I would seem to me the logical choice would have been for them just to add an additional external mechanical safety for those that chose to use it?

Perhaps I'm just paranoid, or inexperienced but I don't like the thought of just pulling the trigger causing a boom with no other actions involved. I don't see myself carrying either a glock, or a DA revolver for that very reason.

With all that said, I've pretty much decided on one of the millenium series for my cc piece, just need to decide on what size hole it's going to make. I like the thought of a DAO trigger _and_ an additional external mechanical saftey.

Am I being over-paranoid here? In my short 29 years on this world Murphy's kicked me enough times he's started to (finally) get my attention.

Leo

 

[cratz2]

Handy, I agree to a point. I do. Sometimes, I just get tired of hearing about how Glocks are so unsafe because they go bang when the trigger is pulled. I mean, I'm a 1911 guy. I don't even really like Glocks much. But they're fairly cheap and reliable and lots of agencies issue them. For general police officers, I think DAO is the way to go for issue guns. As little mandatory training as some (not all - I'm not trying to pick a fight with LEOs) officers get, I can see where a short, light trigger pull increases the likeliness of shooting oneself in the foot or leg when holstering.

Of course, I also have to wonder what the percentage is of such discharges compared to years carrying a certain gun. I think this goes back to training but also weighs in experience and how scared one is. I don't speak from experience but I'd have to imagine the first time a rookie officer has his pistol trained on a subject, tensions will be high. And I'm sure once the decision is made to reholster, tensions are still high, esp if the officer is alone and making the transition to handcuff the subject.

It's still the fault of the officer for having his or her finger on the trigger when it should not be, but I can concede that a short light, trigger facilitates unintended discharges.

 

[Handy]

Cratz,

I hear you. My "issue" with the Glock is not a lack of external safety. It's the fact that the design incorporates an extra spring to help you pull the trigger. That just seems a little nuts.

I think Glocks, especially the 9mms, are good, proven guns. But they are not the answer to every handgun need and their pervasiveness among newer shooters is worrying.

I also don't agree with the common attitude that trigger pull is the second most important element of a good handgun, just after reliability. Handguns aren't sniper weapons, as long as the trigger is reasonable, they'll do the job.

Thanks.

 

[T.Stahl]

I never had an ND with any weapon, except for .22lr target rifles while closing the bolt and touching the trigger.

But I did have sorta failures-to-fire with safety equipped rifles (G3, MG3, SL8), because I forgot to push off the safety.


There's one significant difference between Glocks and revolvers:
I still have to find a wheel gun with a cylinder that will hold 33 rounds.