Go Time! Purchasing First Press

[Lost Sheep]

Hey guys,
It's finally go time. (My heart is actually thumping from anticipation-a bit ridiculous I know) I'm sitting down to order my first press. I have been researching the LCT, Lee Classic Turret Press, as some of you may know. As i sit here about to pull the trigger on the purchase, i notice the ones I'm seeing are called the Lee "Precision" Classic Turret press. That is the press I have been reading about here (on THR) all of the time right? I've never really heard the "Precision" part, that is not another press from Lee, thats the LCT right? I just want to make sure I have the linguistics right on this, so I don't order the wrong thing..

I also have some kit or no kit questions. From what I've read, I think i want a different scale, whats the name of the good RCBS, 0505? So i'm thinking (and these are Amazon prices) I'm going to get the press (119$), the safety primer system (30$), the Auto Riser (13$), and the RCBS scale ($??).
And of course some dies ($?), or should I just kit up?

Also, I had thought previously about priming off press with a handheld (so I can watch TV w my old lady while I'm doing it), and eliminating the primer system, but the more I think about it, this may be more trouble than it's worth since I have to de prime on press anyway...?

I've got to put my 2yr old down for a nap so it will take me a sec to get back to any comments, but thanks in advance! Any thoughts would be much appreciated, as I'm getting really close to launch and don't want to mess this up...Questions in bold...Sorry for long post...i'm a rambler..

Here is the kit link, assuming I pasted it right.

http://www.amazon.com/Lee-Precision...3103&sr=8-2&keywords=lee+classic+turret+press

OK, I am short on time, so I will skip my reasoning. (Usually I dis anyone who makes suggestions without sharing their reasoning, but I will make an exception since you are already considering the LCT and RCBS 505 scale)

Kempf's Gun Shop kit based on the Lee Classic Turret. The kit contains the press, a set of dies (the 4-die set for pistol), a powder measure (get the Pro model rather than the standard), riser and primer feeder device (get both the devices large and small primers) and a few MTM plastic ammo boxes. Add a manual or two and the RCBS/Ohaus balance beam scale (I prefer the RCBS 10-10, but the 505 is perfectly fine).

Talk to Sue Kempf.

Lee Precision is the name of the company. Everyone refers to it as "Lee" Richard and John Lee are father and son. Do not get the retailers who sell Lee gear mixed up with the Lee Precision company. Some retailers take advantage of the potential.

Richard Lee has quite an ego. Do not let his self-promotion put you off. His stuff is good. The cheap stuff is good for the fact that it has let many people get into loading who would otherwise not be able and the top-quality stuff is excellent, strong, precise and durable.

Do not get the Deluxe Turret mixed up with the (superior and newer) Classic Turret. Nor should you get the Classic Press mixed up with the Classic Turret Press. The Classic Press is a cast iron single stage press.

Good luck. Thanks for asking our advice.

Check this thread for reasoning behind my advice. Posts 10 and 11 are mine, but read the others, too.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8857806

Lost Sheep

 

[GT1]

Anyone have theLyman pro 500 scale?

I do, it is as good in operation as any other two poise beam scale. It pivots on agate bearings the same as the 5-0-5 or similar. It is a little light in the base as it comes(plastic), so I added a couple three ounces of lead up under it and it is a rock.

If Lee were to make a 'real' beam scale I imagine it would be very much like the Pro 500.

 

[Katitmail]

Ok. It is done....Now I'm just waiting for the UPS man. Thanks everyone

So, what did you order and where? You do need to order Lee dies sets because of powder/expander die. I'm not sure if other manufacturer dies compatible with Lee's powder measure. I also strongly recommend deluxe 4 die sets for pistol (not 3 die)

For scale - if you have $$ I also recommend good electronic scale. I bought RCBS 5-0-5 and also it works I think I would like electronic one better. Now LCT gone and I use this scale and it's good. Just not as fast as I would like it to be.

 

[frankenstein406]

Did you buy extra turrets?

 

[brainwake]

Welcome to your new obsession. I am not sure you will ever recover from this one. Your trapped for sure!


drink the Koolade....sip...sip....sip...

 

[Potatohead]

So, what did you order and where? You do need to order Lee dies sets because of powder/expander die. I'm not sure if other manufacturer dies compatible with Lee's powder measure. I also strongly recommend deluxe 4 die sets for pistol (not 3 die)

For scale - if you have $$ I also recommend good electronic scale. I bought RCBS 5-0-5 and also it works I think I would like electronic one better. Now LCT gone and I use this scale and it's good. Just not as fast as I would like it to be.

Thanks for everybodys replies, as usual, good stuff....I bought it from Amazon. It will take 3-5 wks to get here. I had to buy there, they have a 6 month same as cash offer going on that I wanted to take advantage of. Its actually 12 month SAC since I spent over a certain price point.(I probably clicked on a few "extras" that I may not need..maybe I can pay them forward if not)

 

[Potatohead]

Did you buy extra turrets?

Negative. I'm only reloading 9mm for the foreseeable. Hey, I noticed someone the other day saying they bought extra powder disks, can't remember why..so they could make it throw identical charges I think.?

 

[Potatohead]

Hey why would they (Lee) sell a separate decapping die? Wouldn't this come with the 4 die 9mm set I bought?

 

[allaroundhunter]

Hey why would they (Lee) sell a separate decapping die? Wouldn't this come with the 4 die 9mm set I bought?

Yes it should. Your resizing die should also deprime.

 

[Potatohead]

Thanks Allaround.

Hey, I was talking to longDayJake (rocky mountain reloading dude) and he said he hears a lot of complaints on the Lee dies being rough on brass. Any thoughts? I guess since they are the cheapest, some of that is to be expected..?

 

[RussellC]

I use the Lee safety scale, and it works just fine. Biggest complaint is it is time consuming, but no more than any balance type scale. It is extremely accurate and very sensitive.

Russellc

 

[RussellC]

Thanks Allaround.

Hey, I was talking to longDayJake (rocky mountain reloading dude) and he said he hears a lot of complaints on the Lee dies being rough on brass. Any thoughts? I guess since they are the cheapest, some of that is to be expected..?

I would say BS to that, at least as far as the carbide lee dies are concerned. They work extremely well, make extremely accurate ammo and give me repeatable results. Plus, they are quite affordable. My experience is limited to the 9mm set, for what that's worth.

I currently use citric acid clean for brass, dry it in oven and it works great in the Lee dies. Being carbide, no lube is required. I have heard some who do, stating that it makes the stroke easier, and will eliminate stuck cases. I use no lube, never had a 9mm hang yet. I dont find the stroke resistance that big a deal, and I am doing this with the Lee Hand Press! I would wait for Natchez to get the classic Turret Press back in stock, much cheaper than others, a lot cheaper than Amazon. Just make sure you get the "Classic" version, the non Classic versions are a lot more wobbly than the cast classic versions.

I also have my eye on the Classic turret, but will wait for Natchez...also looking at the Classic breach lock press as well...not as quick but more accurate results I'm told.

If you must have a kit, look at Kempf's gun shop. They put their own "kit" together with the Lee Classic Turret Press.

Russellc

 

[RussellC]

Yes it should. Your resizing die should also deprime.

It does, the decapper works at the same time as the resizing, you'll see when you get them. Again, you will love these dies. They work great for 9mm and are not hard on the brass, that is total horse wash!

Russellc

 

[Potatohead]

Thanks RusselC

Its done from Amazon....can't go back. i'm darn excited. Already cleared an area in the BEDROOM where I'm going to try and get away with putting it (bought the stand too, we have no room...)

 

[kutter]

I have only Lee dies, what can I say, I am cost conscious, ie. cheap and mine make excellent ammunition. I would love to be able to say that those flyers that I get are a result of crappy dies, hey wait, yeah, that's it, it is the fault of my dies!

Now I have the perfect excuse, thanks potatohead!

 

[Drop45]

Lee dies

I also noticed my Lee dies scratching or marring my brass when I reloaded some 9mm rounds the other night. It didn't do it to every one of them, but I think it's safe to say it did it one every twenty or so. It was my first time reloading 9mm and the cases were cleaned and polished. I loaded 150 44mag rounds earlier in the week with Lee dies without a hitch. All my dies are brand new since I've only been reloading for a couple of months. It seems likes the marring was occurring on the down stroke of the re-sizing part.

 

[brainwake]

Hey why would they (Lee) sell a separate decapping die? Wouldn't this come with the 4 die 9mm set I bought?

I actually will decap with this sometimes because I want to clean my brass and primer pockets before resizing. Is it necessary...no...but I am pretty obsessive sometimes

 

[cfullgraf]

Hey why would they (Lee) sell a separate decapping die? Wouldn't this come with the 4 die 9mm set I bought?

Most of the manufacturers sell a universal decapping die these days. it permits one to recap a case without doing anything else.

I frequently decap fired rifle cases before cleaning and resizing. Among other things, i get an idea if I have lose primer pockets before i expend alot of effort on resizing and prepping a case. I find my AR-15s tend to lose cases most frequently due to lose primer pockets.

In the die sets, the resizing die includes a decapper. So, you would not necessarily need a separate universal decapping die.

Also, a universal decapping die can insure the flash hole is clear when loading on a progressive press when tumbling cases between resizing and reloading. It makes sure the flash hole is clear of tumbling media.

Hope this helps.

 

[Nordeste]

You can't go wrong with the LCT. The scale is slower than others, true, but it is accurate. For its price you won't get anything better.

DO get the adjustable charge bar. It will let you tailor your loads to the .1 grain and it is super easy to use. Well worth is very cheap price.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I agree the adjustable charge bar is a good addition but don't expect the same exact charge weights by the numbers compared to the disks. Also, very small charges with the charge bar are not consistent. (very small as in 2.5gr Clays)

 

[RussellC]

Drop45, I dont think "rough on brass" was meant to refer to scratches and marring, which either means there is a defect or some kind of foreign material in there. By rough on brass, I took it to mean that the brass is worked harder using these dies, shortening its life span. Maybe I'm wrong?

My dies dont scratch or mar the cases that I have noticed anyway. Again, this is the carbide deluxe set I am referring to. A time or two right when I'm ready to seat the bullet, if the case isnt square in the case holder when pressed, the case starts to jam (as it is partially off kilter) the die put a small half moon shaped mark on the case, no big deal and was user error on my part.

Russellc

 

[Katitmail]

Ok. Dies. From my experience they ARE rough on brass. Let me explain what is the problem. I have 2 sets: 45ACP (4 carbide deluxe) and 9x18MAK (3 carbide)

Set of 4 carbide pistol dies for 45ACP. This set has first size/decap die and it's great because carbide insert polished and it resizes nicely. Second die - no problem, it's just expander and powder funnel. Ideally I'd like expander to be more polished but I can DIY no biggie. And it's not doing much bad to the brass. 3rd is a seating die - nothing wrong with it, it just pushes a bullet.
Last factory crimp (FC) die has very gentle cone inside which gradually closes case back. I really want to see this surface polished. It's not. It's pretty good, I don't get whole lot of shavings.

With 9x18MAK same story, but last die that combines seat and crimp has really bad machining. I polished and rounded mouth area so case being "closed" without pinching or shaving but taper area inside which does final taper crimp machined badly as well. It literally cut's corners of the case.

I called and they said to ship them back. I guess they going to polish it inside which is OK. Ideally I'd get separate crimp die from them but they are not taking orders right now.

Overall they work but rust easily. Finish quality is not close to more expensive dies. Do they work? Yes. Would I buy them again? Probably, for less-used calibers.

 

[Nordeste]

I agree the adjustable charge bar is a good addition but don't expect the same exact charge weights by the numbers compared to the disks. Also, very small charges with the charge bar are not consistent. (very small as in 2.5gr Clays)

In my -rather short- experience as a reloader, and reloading only 9 mm which is the caliber of the two pistols I use, I have to say that consistency of powder charges with the LACB depends a lot on the powder used.

I currently use Vectan BA9. This is a French manufactured powder specifically designed for the 9 mm cartridge. I would call it a medium burn rate powder. Can't compare with those you guys in the US because we get no American powder over here. The other alternative is a locally manufactured powder called Optima A, a bit faster in its burn rate.

With BA9, the performance of the LACB is superb. I get very consistent charges, with deviations being very, very small, less than 0.1 grains whenever they take place, which is not often.

With Optima A, not so good. I haven't tried it personally, but my reloading buddies say that the charges are not as consistent, but they also say the disks don't do any better.

My opinion is to the OP is to get the LACB, then find out what powders are locally available and how they perform on the LACB.

 

[kostyanj]

Maybe I'm just a negative person but I feel with some of these threads, it's the blind leading the blind. People who have been reloading for a few months or less giving advice/input on it. I'm sure you guys have opinions and you might have some valuable insight, but maybe it's not always correct/best to share it as gospel? Maybe I'm just grumpy and upset that no new reloaders have given up yet and sold me all of their components?

To address some of the issues that were raised in recent posts.

Sizing dies scratching brass:
Most likely you're trying to run dirty brass through the dies or did run dirty brass and got something jammed in there. The dies like to be clean and if you take care of them, they won't scratch your brass. It's also very possible that some QC has taken a nose dive in recent times at Lee and dies aren't as polished as they once were, they might even have some burrs not removed. IF that were the case, EVERY piece of brass would have a scratch in the same spot (unless your dies are turning, in which case you have bigger issues).

The first thing you're supposed to do with a new set of dies is CLEAN them. I like to take them apart completely and go over them with some sort of petroleum based parts cleaner. Brake cleaner does the job quite well. Afterwards, I'll oil them so they don't rust. CLP or Remoil do a wonderful job. I'm willing to bet that your scratching/marring issues will be gone if you clean the dies and use tumbled brass.


Lee powder measure not being accurate:
The Lee powder measure is one of the most simple on the market but it is a damn good powder measure with some powders. Hell, even the Harrell doesn't do well with all powders. Extruded, flake, and stick powders are going to have issues in ALL measures because of the inherent way in which we use a volume to measure a weight. Those powder shapes aren't going to fill in the volume as well or flow as well through the measure as ball powders.

That aside, for years I used a Lee powder measure with Unique (a PITA to meter according to folks on the interwebs) without so much as a hiccup. I was always within .1-.2gr. Just learn what the powder measure can and can't do and stay within those limits. I found that the adjustable measure wasn't worth it, but the discs worked wonders. Some people go as far as epoxying some of the openings to get a more precise measurement. But you will see that over time the powder measure will do it's job quite well and you'll learn to like it.


To the OP, welcome to the obsession, err sub-hobby. For me it started out as a way to save money, but quickly turned into me spending more and shooting much more. Plus, you get a huge sense of accomplishment knowing that you created something. Just try to stay away from casting =) you might never leave your garage.

Sorry for the rant...

 

[Katitmail]

Sizing dies scratching brass:
Most likely you're trying to run dirty brass through the dies or did run dirty brass and got something jammed in there. The dies like to be clean and if you take care of them, they won't scratch your brass. It's also very possible that some QC has taken a nose dive in recent times at Lee and dies aren't as polished as they once were, they might even have some burrs not removed. IF that were the case, EVERY piece of brass would have a scratch in the same spot (unless your dies are turning, in which case you have bigger issues).

The first thing you're supposed to do with a new set of dies is CLEAN them. I like to take them apart completely and go over them with some sort of petroleum based parts cleaner. Brake cleaner does the job quite well. Afterwards, I'll oil them so they don't rust. CLP or Remoil do a wonderful job. I'm willing to bet that your scratching/marring issues will be gone if you clean the dies and use tumbled brass.

I'm new reloader but I don't think I'm just not understanding how great LEE dies is. They work, but they DO have problems. Basically you get what you pay for.

All my brass cleaned by wet tumbling with SS pins. As clean as it gets inside and out.

Dies also cleaned with brake cleaner. After first set rusted overnight (just cosmetic thing) I did oiled second set outside. WHY I don't have to do that with Dillon dies?! They came chromed on outside. I have something to compare with.

I do agree that 2 sets I got from LEE might be not "best" because of the time when I bought it and QC was bad. One set had threads cross-threaded where decapping pin collet screws in.

Scratching done not because there is burr. It's because lathe tool/cutter left grooves. When you push case in it basically cut's corners off. If it was polished it would more "push" case back to shape instead of grinding it's corners.

Loading 100 rounds on lee dies and loading 100 rounds on Dillon dies - you can SEE difference in amount of brass shavings on press.

No difference in how it shoots. But to those who care about nice tools(me) it makes difference.