Going to Gunsite! Any tips?

[BSA1]

Is this a 1911 45 caliber mucho mano facility?

Are other types, makes and calibers allowed?

Your comments disturb me:

If the shooter is not mucho mano and wants to shoot a gun and caliber other than the 1911 how is he treated by the instructors and more importantly how much do the instructors allow harassment by other students?

Joking around on my time and money? I don't think so. After I fork several thousand dollars I am there to learn to shoot better. Not watch two New Yorkers play games.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I attended a 1911 Centennial class, so most folks were shooting some form of 1911 (there was one Glock shooter). This was very interesting as I was able to see the failure rate of the different levels of 1911s and confirm my prior opinions. There was almost every kind of 1911 there from custom builds to RIAs...there was even the new (at the time) Ruger SR1911

They also run Glock centric classes as well as ones geared to military shooters...so the Beretta 92.

If I hadn't been attending a 1911 class, I would likely have shot either my SIG 226 9mm or my S&W M&P9

Joking around and having fun is part of any well structured class. If you don't have breaks in focus on shooting, you soon burn out and become unsafe.

 

[Arp32]

Not to get too far off topic, but would you care to elaborate on on which 1911's weren't up to snuff during your trip there?

 

[9mmepiphany]

It is really too broad a subject to go into in this thread...you can start another thread if you'd like...but I'll just say that just about every body was bleeding by the second day who's 1911 hadn't been fitted after purchase or which wasn't a high end production model.

The worst was the Ruger, which lost it's firing pin retaining block on the firing line. I was very impressed by the STI Trojan which is a good value in the lower mid-priced range

 

[Arp32]

Thanks, I won't derail this thread.

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

My primary will be a Kimber Compact CDP (my regular carry piece), backup a Colt Gov't.

1. You may find the longer sight radius of the Gov. model useful at the most distances. And by Wednesday, you will be looking for every advantage available.

2. A good running shoe w/ lots of tread will be useful. A hiking book for ankle support may be better for the tactical portions of the course.

3. Long Sleeve shirts (already mentioned, but they are important).

4. Sweatshirt for those chilly early mornings and late night events.

5. Shooting glasses if you don't wear glasses.

6. Sweat rag

7. Digital camera w/ a big memory card and a battery charger. Going there is an experience that needs to be documented.

8. Quality, polarized sunglasses and a neck thingy to keep them on you when you have to suddenly take them off

9. Make sure that flashlight is small enough for your belt or pocket

10. GPS to find Gunsite and your way back

11. Conditioning: running and fast walking to toughen-up your feet. You will be on them most of the week.

12. Whatever holster you bring will have to make your pistol readily accessible, while also keeping it secure from falls or hanging upside down.

13. If you have problems going Prone, practice, as one shooting position is from the low Prone. Getting a copy of The Modern Technique of the Pistol will give you an idea of the different stances you will learn.


And as who will be in attendance, it will be a mixture of civilians, police, and military SF-types. I had 4-guys from SEAL Team 5 in my class, and another four were in the API350 going on at the same time.

And, this is a class where you need to keep your eyes and ears open, and your mouth shut. No horse-play or grab-ass on or off the firing line. And unless things have changed since the Colonel owned it, the instructors don't care about a student's prior training, experience, or opinion. Students are there to learn, not teach.

Question for the other Family Members: How do you feel about fingerless shooting gloves, such as those worn by SWAT operators? I am thinking that the the thinner, ventilated ones would be superior to Tough Skin, which I used but wasn't that happy with.

DVC

 

[Girodin]

It is really too broad a subject to go into in this thread...you can start another thread if you'd like...but I'll just say that just about every body was bleeding by the second day who's 1911 hadn't been fitted after purchase or which wasn't a high end production model.

I'd be interested in another thread on that topic as well. Thanks.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Question for the other Family Members: How do you feel about fingerless shooting gloves, such as those worn by SWAT operators? I am thinking that the the thinner, ventilated ones would be superior to Tough Skin, which I used but wasn't that happy with.

I didn't use anything and dislike gloves in general as I like to feel the index of the grip in my hand to verify my correct grip in the holster.

I didn't have any blisters, bleeding or abraded hands...the worst thing I did was break a finger nail loading magazines...but then my 1911 doesn't have any sharp edges or checkering.

It has flat topped diamonds on the G10 panels and golfball texture on the front strap and MSH. The grip safety is fitted to a hairline and the thumb safety plate has been blended to the frame. The thumb safety levers, slide stop and trigger face have all been beveled. The only thing that has any traction are the cocking serrations and those on the rear of the slide and rear sight

 

[Frank Ettin]

Is this a 1911 45 caliber mucho mano facility?

Are other types, makes and calibers allowed?

Your comments disturb me:

If the shooter is not mucho mano and wants to shoot a gun and caliber other than the 1911 how is he treated by the instructors and more importantly how much do the instructors allow harassment by other students?...

Many of the instructors carry Glocks, students in the classes I've been in have used a variety of pistols, including Glocks, Springfield XDs, SIGs, and Berettas. The focus is on performance, not the type of gun.

Meet one of the instructors and Range Masters at Gunsite, Il Ling New.

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

Many of the instructors carry Glocks, students in the classes I've been in have used a variety of pistols, including Glocks, Springfield XDs, SIGs, and Berettas. The focus is on performance, not the type of gun.

Yes, what is important is that the gun and ammo function every-time, and the gun holds up for the entire week of shooting.

 

[Series 70]

Guys, I can't thank you enough for the info. I'm looking forward to a great week of training. The instructors are going to be Ed Stock, Charlie McNeese and Walt Wilkinson. Don't know if I could ask for a better group.

It's hard to believe it's only three weeks away. I signed up in the spring and have been like an eager kid ever since. I understand about the altitude difference, having been stationed at Ft. Huachuca log ago, but don't have time to get there early enough to properly acclimate. I suppose I will be adjusted just in time to catch the plane for home.

I think a camera was on my packing list as item #1, even higher than my pistols.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Ed Stock was one of my instructors when I took 250 in 2002. He's excellent.

I don't know the other two, but I have always been impressed by the instructors at Gunsite -- especially their professionalism and strong desire to help each student do as well as he can.

 

[BSA1]

Many of the instructors carry Glocks, students in the classes I've been in have used a variety of pistols, including Glocks, Springfield XDs, SIGs, and Berettas. The focus is on performance, not the type of gun

The reason I ask is the website only shows shooters firing 1911's on the line.

 

[BSA1]

A little humor goes a long ways and makes things enjoyable BUT for me to attend it will easily reach $3,000. Hence my concern about recieving training not watching instructors and students play grab ass.

I know Gunsite has had management issues in the past. Being the shy type I would certainly speak up if I feel the training gets off track.

 

[Frank Ettin]

The reason I ask is the website only shows shooters firing 1911's on the line.

I can't imagine what you were looking at. I just watched the promotional video on the Gunsite home page, and saw probably more Glocks than anything else. I also saw a few Berettas, as well as several 1911s. The photo on the page describing the 250 course show two students with Glocks right in front.

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

Duplicate

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

Forgot this one:

14. Loose-fitting, comfortable, strong pants. The tan 5.11s are perfect.

Ed Stock is one of the few instructors to survive the different changes of administration. He and his brother Giles were two of my instructors for API270 back in 1985. For those of you who never met the Colonel, he was a real character, and I say that in a nice way.

Anyone here attend Gunsite on or before that date?

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

Although being a Family Member probably doesn't meant what it did when the Colonel ran Gunsite, I am still proud to be one. The Raven spreads it wings proudly on my business cards, the grips of my 911s, and all my personal vehicles.

Series 70: I hope you feel the same way after graduation.

DVC

 

[Leanwolf]

BSA1 - "Is this a 1911 45 caliber mucho mano facility?

Are other types, makes and calibers allowed?"

I can't answer for now, but when I attended Gunsite in April, 1981, there was an assortment of handguns being used, from .38 Special revolvers on up to .45 ACP. Jeff Cooper and Clint Smith and the other instructors showed the same amount of dedicated and helpful attention to the revolver shooters as to those shooting semi-automatics, .45 ACP, .38 Super, and 9mm. (I had been shooting IPSC for several years so I shot my Colt's 1911 model .45 ACP.)

There were mainly civilians there but a few cops. I don't remember any military members being there ... but Gunsite then was not as well known as it became, and is today.

One cop who was there was a RCMP officer who worked waaay north of Calgary. He was shooting a revolver, S&W .38 Spec. Good with it, too.

A man and wife couple were there from NYC. He and his wife had CCWs there. He was a wealthy restaurant owner, who owned five very upscale restaurants in Manhatten. (Gee, I wonder how he managed to get that CCW? ) He was a very nice, pleasant, and outgoing man. He was shooting a Star PD 45 .45 ACP, and his wife was shooting a Colt's revolver .38 Spec. I don't remember the model but the barrel was 4".

The restaurant owner was on the line beside me when in one string, he literally shot that Star PD .45 to pieces. Came apart! It was an older Garcia import, not the later Interarms Star PD .45 imports, which had much better quality control in Spain. He rented a Colt's .45 ACP from the gunsmith there and continued shooting. Cooper suggested he buy a Colt's Lightweight Commander .45 ACP as his CCW when he returned to New York and the man said he intended to do so. Cooper also advised him to get a good gunbelt and holster from Milt Sparks.

I enjoyed my stay there and learned a lot.

L.W.

 

[Infidel4life11]

all the above and an open mind, you hands will get torn up but in my case the sun did more damage to me. I will only dress in light colors usually tan 511 pants and long sleeve shirt.

 

[Leanwolf]

INFIDEL4LIFE11 - " ... but in my case the sun did more damage to me. I will only dress in light colors usually tan 511 pants and long sleeve shirt.

Brother, you ain't kiddin'. I wore a long sleeve white or light blue shirt the six days I was there and that was in mid-April. That Arizona sun can make someone wearing short sleeve shirts mighty sorry he did not bring a long sleeve shirt.

L.W.

 

[Leanwolf]

KEVIN ROHER - "Anyone here attend Gunsite on or before that date?"

Yep, second week of April, 1981.

Clint Smith had just taken over for Chuck Taylor, who had left. I think Chuck and Jeff had had some disagreement over training methods, or something along that line.

Classes were much smaller than what I hear they are today. Eight per class. Everyone brought their lunches. I drove my Ford F250 from Los Angeles, and "tailgated" it for lunch each day. I stayed in the only motel in Pauldin and drove out to the ranch each morning, as did a number of the students. A few arrived in pickup campers so they stayed on the ranch parked where the big windmill was standing.

I still have and wear my Raven belt buckle, and also still have a never-worn tee shirt, orange with the Raven emblazoned on the front. I don't recall they had the Raven decals at that time.

If I can find it, I'll scan and post a picture of me, Jeff Cooper, and another shooter, at the range.

L.W.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Good stuff, and thanks for the memories from all you old timers . I wanted desperately to get out there back in those years when Gunsite was about the only game in town, but work always got in the way.

 

[Series 70]

Just like the local kids, I went school shopping today. Instead of notebooks and pencils, I got bandages, moleskin, advil and first aid tape. Also picked up a set of gel inserts for my shoes. I used to wear those when I'd umpire double headers and they sure make it tolerable to be on one's feet all day.

I have a couple more magazines, an uplula loader and a compact cleaning kit on the way.

Just over two weeks away!

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

Yep, second week of April, 1981.

Clint Smith had just taken over for Chuck Taylor, who had left. I think Chuck and Jeff had had some disagreement over training methods, or something along that line.

That sounds right. With the Colonel, it was his way or the highway. I met Taylor after that and attended one of his training sessions. Nice fellow, very low key.

When I was there in '85, '87, and '89, The instructors included the Stock brothers, Jack Furr, a big guy from Beverly Hills SWAT, and Louie Awerbuck. Robbie Baarkman was the gunsmith, although he was replaced at one point with Ted Yost. I believe it was the latter gunsmith who built my Gunsite Custom Carry.

Am wishing I still had my early GSP.