Gunsite 250 Was Awesome

[D.B. Cooper]

...they taught the "boxers stance" (squared off toward the target, strong side foot slightly back, knees slightly bent, leaning forward)...

Yeah, that's pretty much what they taught my class, too.

 

[Jeff White]

I don't consider that weaver but I won't quibble with their terminology. They never referred to it as weaver at any class I took.

 

[Kleanbore]

This has been an excellent discussion.

This aspect...

The outdoor combat course was basically a walk through in the woods with steel targets you would shoot as you saw them. Some concealed, some not.

....strikes me as much better for defensive shooting training than simply shooting at targets in front of a berm

Were I still sufficiently fit I would strongly consider the course, but my woods-walking days are behind me.

 

[Old Dog]

Thunder Ranch wasn't around when the Big 3 were established. I thought Clint sold the property in OR. Did he open up somewhere else?

A few years ago, the current Big 3 were Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, and (Bill) Roger's Shooting School. Defense Training International (John Farnam) is right up there also

Ayoob (LFI) still teaches traveling classes (he's out of FL now). You'll still see him on the West Coast at Firearms Academy of Seattle (FAS)...which also just changed hands

Thunder Ranch is still operating in Oregon; Clint's still listed as the founder and owner on the website, he and Heidi still have their profiles up...

Mas will be out here at FAS on the 21st for MAG 40 and MAG 80. FAS is a very nice facility with some very competent instructors.

I had not seen anything about Marty Hayes selling FAS.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I had not seen anything about Marty Hayes selling FAS.

He sold it to Belle

 

[9mmepiphany]

Yeah, that's pretty much what they taught my class, too.

That's the same lower body geometry as the Modern Isosceles (MI).

The difference between the two "stances" is the arm geometry. In the Gunsite Weaver, the support arm pulls down. In the MI both arms create the sides of the triangle (when viewed from above) to allow the gun to return to the original POA. The Chapman is more bladed (to the support side) and the strong arm is straightened out. Jack Weaver doesn't think the Weaver, as taught by Cooper, is the same as the stance he originated.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Were I still sufficiently fit I would strongly consider the course, but my woods-walking days are behind me.

They would probably let you skip that part. They don't make students do anything the student doesn't feel they can physically do. It's not boot camp, but I was on my feet for four hrs straight, then an hour lunch break, then four more hours on my feet. A little bit of kneeling and getting up off the ground from kneeling. If you're going to the home site in AZ, they offer a seniors' version of the course.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I don't consider that weaver but I won't quibble with their terminology. They never referred to it as weaver at any class I took.

And, TBH, I may have the nomenclatures mixed up, too.

 

[Old Dog]

He sold it to Belle

Dang, that was fast. I had heard she became the lead instructor; I remember her from CJTC (our state law enforcement training center) when she was an instructor there...

They would probably let you skip that part. They don't make students do anything the student doesn't feel they can physically do. It's not boot camp, but I was on my feet for four hrs straight, then an hour lunch break, then four more hours on my feet. A little bit of kneeling and getting up off the ground from kneeling. If you're going to the home site in AZ, they offer a seniors' version of the course.

I remember that in the 105 degree heat. I was registering for Craig Douglas' (Shivworks) ECQC class next month at FAS but screwed up a shoulder again and don't think it's gonna work out this time. Maybe Craig will offer a seniors' version of this physically-demanding class...

 

[D.B. Cooper]

In the MI both arms create the sides of the triangle (when viewed from above) to allow the gun to return to the original POA.

I reread this, and it makes more sense the second time. This is exactly what they taught. They even used the "triangle as viewed from above" as a way to describe what we should be doing. This allowe a straight, forward punch-out presentation of the gun and that, in turn, allowed us to be prepping the trigger from retention (as soon as the gun was parallel to the ground) all the way to fully extended, at which point the gun should be discharging.

In fact, this was one of my quibbles and my comments led to our discussion about how competition creates training scars. Finger on the trigger before your sights are on the target will get you a DQ.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I shot the first league competition since taking the 250 course today. Some of it stuck. What struck me most was the way I fired successive shots and my DA-SA transition. I used to fire doubles on targets that required two hits as what I now know as "controlled pairs"-two aimed shots, reacquiring sight picture before the 2nd shot. Gunsite taught me to "hammer" the target-two shots in rapid succession, do not reacquire your sight on the second shot. I don't know how much time I shaved off with that, but I know I shaved some, and all my shots hit. No misses.

Regarding DA-SA transitions, I didn't even noticed it. I can't even recall if there was a difference or not. But some of my first targets in each stage had 2-shot groups that were almost touching. SO, again, something stuck.