going to see the Grand Canyon....

[SSN Vet]

Taking the family, spring of 2011, to see grandparents and visit grand canyon.

Flying Southwest, non-stop, to Phoenix, renting a mini-van, driving all over creation for a week and then back track home.

I'd very much like to carry during this trip.

I have Maine resident and NH non-resident permits.

With all the TSA hastles these days, I'm thinking that I might ship the slide and mag USPS to my dad, and then ship the frame UPS. He can pick up a box of ammo. for me and I'll be good to go the day we arrive.

I also need to find out what the rules are in the Grand Canyon National Park. Don't want our family vacation ruined, should daddy get carted off by the Feds

But also don't want to be the next blood stained headline on the nightly news.

Thoughts? Advice? Links to reliable references?

I'm not relishing the prospect of having some TSA agent feeling up my daughters But apparently, we will have no controll over this, and the tickets were bought and paid for weeks befor this business hit the press.

Thanks in advance.
SSN

 

[Sam1911]

No reason not to take your gun and ammo with you on the plane. The process is quite simple, well documented (here at THR in probably 25 threads) and pretty painless.

National parks rules are now the same as the state laws that would apply in the state where the park is located. If you can carry in that state outside the park, you can carry inside the park. However, park offices, visitor centers, etc. are still off-limits as federal buildings.

To check the laws in the states in which you'll be traveling: www.handgunlaw.us and www.opencarry.org

 

[SSN Vet]

I wonder if shipping it would be cheaper than paying for an extra bag...

 

[NavyLCDR]

I wonder if shipping it would be cheaper than paying for an extra bag...

Why would you have to pay for the extra bag? You couldn't make room in an existing suitcase for a small pistol case?

 

[SSN Vet]

Why would you have to pay for the extra bag? You couldn't make room in an existing suitcase for a small pistol case?

I was under the impression that any firearm had to be in an apporved, lockable case (like a Pelican case, not the cheapo blow molded case the manufacturer provides) with one of those TSA combo/key locks keeping it closed and that it had to be presented for inspection when the baggage was checked.

I guess I assumed it had to be handled as a seperate bag.

I'll have to call Southwest.

 

[svtruth]

Don't Know the Law

but it is a great trip. There is a great roadhouse not far outside Phoenix, famous for its pies, worth a stop. Watch for the end/beginning of the saguaros.
Have fun.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I was under the impression that any firearm had to be in an apporved, lockable case (like a Pelican case, not the cheapo blow molded case the manufacturer provides) with one of those TSA combo/key locks keeping it closed and that it had to be presented for inspection when the baggage was checked.

I guess I assumed it had to be handled as a seperate bag.

I'll have to call Southwest.

The unloaded gun goes in a $5.00 case you can buy at Wal Mart. You put a standard lock on it that only you have the key/combo to (NOT a TSA lock!) The case just has to be designed so that you can't easily open it enough with the lock(s) on it to get the gun out. More of a problem with rifle cases than handgun cases.

I put my gun in the case with the slide locked back and the magazine beside the gun to show on xray easily it is unloaded. The locked gun case goes inside your suitcase. Ammo gets transported in factory box is the best, or a plastic box that keeps the rounds separated from each other. I put a 20 round factory box of ammo in the corner of the locked gun case. You can usually get away with a loaded magazine if it is in a pouch that covers the top of the magazine.

You go to the airline check-in counter, tell the airline person you have an unloaded firearm to declare. They will have you sign a tag that the firearm is unloaded, put the tag near the gun case in your luggage or in the gun case if the gun case is going by itself. You can then put a TSA lock on the luggage if you want. The airline person will direct you to a TSA screening point or call for an escort to take you there. They will take your luggage, xray it (possibly hand inspect it), send the bag on it's way and you are free to go through normal screening with the rest of the unarmed sheep.

When you get to your destination your luggage pops out on the carousel with the rest of the bags. Total extra time for the processing of the bag with the gun in it for me was 10 minutes.

As stated earlier, the National Park now has the same rules as the state it is located in, including you can't carry in Federal buildings that are manned with Federal employees.

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

The frame is still a firearm so you will have to send it to an FFL on either end.

 

[leadcounsel]

The Grand Canyon is awesome. Carry is allowed with a recognized permit.

I would boycot the airlines and take an extra day or two and drive. I am furious over the TSA garbage. However if you must fly, check your guns according to the rules in your bagage.

I was just there recently. Seriously PLAN on slow travel around the Canyon. It won't be a fast visit. There are no direct roads in my experience. Getting around the North rim can take a long time, for instance, due to the nature of the design of the roads.

I didn't go to the South rim because of the extra time it would have involved. As I understand it the South rim is more commercialized, the North rim is more natural.

Have fun.

 

[brboyer]

The frame is still a firearm so you will have to send it to an FFL on either end.

Wrong.

May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Carry is allowed with a recognized permit.

In Arizona the only permit you need is the 2nd Amendment. If a person is over 21, no permit is required in Arizona for open or concealed carry. If a person is over 18 no permit is required for open carry.

 

[SSN Vet]

Sounds like a no brainer.

We'll be spending the night at one of the motels inside the park on the north rim. So we'll have two days there.

Parents don't get around to well, so we'll be using their handicap tag on the rental van... which should make parking a breeze.

Maine to AZ isn't exactly a trip we can drive over a nine day school vacation.

The TSA/airlines basically have us over a barrel.

I'm not so keen that the new rules came out after we bought the tickets.

We want to sieze the opportunity and make the trip this year, so that our girls can have a special memory with grandparents, while they can still do it (they're in their 80's).

I can't believe how expensive it is to fly these days.

Thanks for the feedback. I had a pretty good idea what the drill was, but am much more confident about it now

 

[VPLthrneck]

I'm curious as to why you want to travel with ammo, I can see one mag full, but you can still buy ammo here in AZ. And when you get back to Maine with it you'll have a souvineer you can actually use.

Here's a link to the Grand Canyon's rules and regs page, the part about firearms is on the bottom and is a PDF of the general regional NPS brochure on firearms carry in the Park system.

http://www.nps.gov/grca/parkmgmt/lawsandpolicies.htm#CP_JUMP_429666

Also make sure to check out all the other info on there site; becasue of the amount of people that visit there they are good at keeping statuses of roads, weather, and operating hours up to date. And by the way, depending on what month you're visiting expect snow until the end of May--the South Rim is 7200 feet in elevation and the North Rim is 8200 feet!

 

[swinokur]

Many airlines are now charging for checked baggage, even if it is only one bag. So if you need to check a bag, it may be about 25 dollars. I'd bet for a long trip you'd be checking a bag anyway. 25 dollars is pretty cheap compared to shipping and the hassle of having to send and pick it up via common carrier. No USPS.. You cannot UPS or FED Ex a firearm from one of those local store front package stores. Must go to a depot. Given that and flying with weapons is extremely easy, it's a no brainer for me.

All the added TSA scrutiny of passengers has not affected flying with firearms IMO.

 

[leVieux]

You can get TSA regs from the government website; print them.

You can get individual airline's regs from their websites or customer service; print them.

Carry copies of both sets on your person. Many ticket agents, gate personnel, etc don't have a clue.

Don't attempt to get any firearms part or ammo past security.

The folks who accept your checked luggage will probably have you demonstrate that the weapon is unloaded. Best way is to have mag out & slide locked open; for revolver, open cylinder with bbl pointed straight down.

I have been all over like this, including AZ. Note that the Hertz office at PHX Sky Harbor Air Terminal is posted "No Firearms".

Good Luck,
leVieux

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

You will be covered at the most frequently visited part, the South Rim. (The North Rim, besides being more remote and a long drive, is likely closed by now anyway.) If you plan to visit more remote parts of the park that are also on Indian reservations (e.g., the Grand Canyon Skywalk), these do not honor any CCW.

 

[SSN Vet]

expect snow

Not my first time in AZ mountains.... been to Flagstaff, Sedona...but thanks for the reminder, We're heading out in April, so we'll be sure to pack something warm.

I believe it's the North Rim we're going to... where the big visitors center is. I'll let my dad be the tour guide, as he's really into that. He's a pro-bono agent of the AZ chamber of commerce and is always happy to pass along LOTs of details...

I'm not as much concerned about carrying in the park as I am during the rest of our travels.

Many airlines are now charging for checked baggage,

Fortunately, Southwest still gives you one checked bag per person.

I'm curious as to why you want to travel with ammo

Not carrying any more ammo. that I normally would 12+1 on board, 12 in spare mag. That's one box (of the expesive stuff)

Indian reservations ...these do not honor any CCW.

Now that's one I hadn't thought of. We were planning on visiting one of the Pueblos.

Grand Canyon Skywalk.

Unfortuanately, at $75/head ($65 for kids) for 20 mn. on the glass.... it aint gonna happen.

You cannot UPS or FED Ex a firearm from one of those local store front package stores.

Fortunately, I can send it from work.

 

[mboylan]

In Arizona the only permit you need is the 2nd Amendment. If a person is over 21, no permit is required in Arizona for open or concealed carry. If a person is over 18 no permit is required for open carry.

There are definite exceptions to this that can ruin your life.

School perimetrers still require CCW permits in AZ. Carry in a National Park in AZ requires a CCW as well. Carry in restaurants that serve alcohol requires a CCW. There are other notable exceptions.

Responsible carry requires knowledge of the law.

 

[Sam1911]

Carry in a National Park in AZ requires a CCW as well.

Is there an AZ statute that requires this? That seems odd as, prior to the rule change it would have been illegal to carry in a National Park at all, so they must have written that law very recently.

I believe that if you are legal to carry in the state where the park is located, then you are legal to carry in the park.

 

[mboylan]

Is there an AZ statute that requires this? That seems odd as, prior to the rule change it would have been illegal to carry in a National Park at all, so they must have written that law very recently.

I believe that if you are legal to carry in the state where the park is located, then you are legal to carry in the park.

Open carry in an AZ NP is fine without a permit.

 

[Sam1911]

Open carry in an AZ NP is fine without a permit.

How about concealed?

 

[NavyLCDR]

How about concealed?

If a person is over 21 years of age, concealed carry in a national park in Arizona is legal as well, without a permit. Unless mboylan would like to prove us wrong by posting an actual statute.

 

[danez71]

NavyLt is right on this. No pernnit is needed to CCW in Az. No permit is need to bring a gun into the park. No permit is needed to carry concealed inside the park. 21+ of course.

The OP needs to go to

http://www.nps.gov/grca/parkmgmt/lawsandpolicies.htm#CP_JUMP_429666

and

http://www.nps.gov/grca/parkmgmt/upload/Firearms-in-IMRparks2-2010.pdf

for the info.

The first link also has other links to official links. The laws are actually fairly easy to read here in Az so dont be shy to dive into the Arizona Revised Statutes (A.R.S.'s)